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Pre-Columbian Map of North America Could Be Authentic--Or not
Scientific American ^ | July 22, 2009 | Brendan Borrell

Posted on 07/23/2009 4:35:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

A Danish art conservator claims that the controversial Vinland Map of America, published prior to Christopher Columbus's landfall, may not be a forgery after all.

"We have so far found no reason to believe that the Vinland Map is the result of a modern forgery," says Renè Larsen of the Royal Danish Academy of Fine Arts. Reuters first publicized his results last week but provided none of the skepticism being voiced by veterans in the field.

The map mysteriously emerged in a Geneva bookshop in 1957 depicting a "new" and "fertile" land to the west that Viking explorer Leif Eriksson had christened Vinland. Eriksson's 11th-century voyages to Newfoundland are well-known today, but they were thought to be unknown to 15th-century Europeans. The Vinland map could represent the earliest cartographic record of North America and prove that Europeans were aware of the continent prior to Columbus's voyage.

But scientific experts have bickered over the map's authenticity since the 1970s, as described in a 2004 Scientific American article. The map's parchment dates to circa 1434, but scientists say that the underlying yellow-brown ink has a chemical component, anatase, that indicates a 20th-century origin.

(Excerpt) Read more at scientificamerican.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs; heyerdahl; thorheyerdahl; vikings; vinland; vinlandmap
MAP IS BACK: A Danish researcher suggests that the Vinland Map, possibly the first depiction of North America, is authentic after all, but experts are still not convinced -- YALE UNIVERSITY

Pre-Columbian Map of North America Could Be Authentic--Or not

1 posted on 07/23/2009 4:35:40 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

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2 posted on 07/23/2009 4:37:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv

Anatase didn’t exist in the 15th century??


3 posted on 07/23/2009 4:50:30 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: SunkenCiv

I doubt this will ever be settled.


4 posted on 07/23/2009 4:53:46 PM PDT by rdl6989
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To: Sacajaweau

I recall a nineties book about humanity’s use of salt.

It mentioned that Europe was eating salted cod for about century after European waters had run out.

There was also a mention of merchants writing an angry letter to Columbus decrying his claim to have discovered the New World when it had been under-the-radar knowledge among fishermen and whalers for decades.


5 posted on 07/23/2009 4:55:22 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: SunkenCiv

I’ve seen other maps from earlier periods, and were amazed how they were able to draw them without overhead views (satellites), but this looks too accurate for that time period.


6 posted on 07/23/2009 4:56:21 PM PDT by Longhair_and_Leather (Don't send a boy to do a man's job, send a woman--Sarah 2012!)
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To: SunkenCiv

I thought it was proven to be a “forgery” made by a priest from some vellum he cut out of an old book and given to a friend as a gift who knew what it was. I think the priest was an antiquarian or historian and his friend a collector. I think the priest just wanted to “try his hand” and, considering the ongoing controversy, he exceeded his ambitions.


7 posted on 07/23/2009 5:00:21 PM PDT by Oratam
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To: rdl6989
Anatase is rare in the US but Norway is noted as one of the places it can be found. Isn't the bottom line all about MONEY......and Grants....

It'll go on and on like the Turin thing, the Ark..... I swear these guys go in the back room and decide who is going to be the antagonist.

8 posted on 07/23/2009 5:01:00 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Oratam
I enjoy tracing old maps....but when I'm doing it, I'm looking for the knowledge that originally "created" it.

Maps have secrets. It takes a massive amount of information to draw what appears to be...A Simple Map".

9 posted on 07/23/2009 5:06:03 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: SunkenCiv
The map's parchment dates to circa 1434, but scientists say that the underlying yellow-brown ink has a chemical component, anatase, that indicates a 20th-century origin.

So somebody traced over it. Eriksson made it this far. Don't know why a map would be farfetched.

10 posted on 07/23/2009 5:19:42 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (ABC-AP-MSNBC-All Obama, All the time.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I’m inclined to think it’s bogus, but this Dane is keeping the controversy alive.


11 posted on 07/23/2009 5:24:11 PM PDT by colorado tanker ("Ah guess I talked stupidly when I said the officer acted stupidly.")
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To: SunkenCiv

Maps Of The Ancient Sea Kings

12 posted on 07/23/2009 5:47:24 PM PDT by blam
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To: colorado tanker

When it was initially publicly known, it was widely believed to be the real deal. There are however those who refuse to accept things (largely as a matter of personal whim) and will saddle on anything that seems to tear down their bugbears. :’) The RCC in Rome recognized a Bishop of Vinland (as some of the navigationists have pointed out over the decades), so a surviving map shouldn’t be that big a surprise. (’:


13 posted on 07/23/2009 5:49:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: VeniVidiVici
The map being real or not real isn't that important anyway, because of L'anseaux Meadows.
14 posted on 07/23/2009 5:50:43 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Oratam

No one has proven anything about it, any more than anyone has proven that Schliemann faked the so-called Mask of Agamemnon, or that Evans faked that cool ivory statuette. One allegation is that part of the drawn image is older than the “map” images.


15 posted on 07/23/2009 5:52:24 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Longhair_and_Leather

To me, it doesn’t look particularly more accurate than other medieval maps.


16 posted on 07/23/2009 5:53:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv
Pre-Columbian Map of North America Could Be Authentic--Or not

Can't argue with that headline.

17 posted on 07/23/2009 5:56:26 PM PDT by gitmo (History books will read that Lincoln freed the slaves and Obama enslaved the free.)
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To: sinanju
Interesting, never heard that one before. Columbus went to Iceland to research his voyage, as the previous Viking seafaring to unknown lands to the west was known in Europe. The Grand Banks were probably known and exploited for centuries before anyone had heard of Columbus. :')
18 posted on 07/23/2009 5:59:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: rdl6989

:’)


19 posted on 07/23/2009 5:59:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Sacajaweau

The anatase question was raised by a lone researcher and map skeptic (iow, a true believer), I think he’s now deceased. Even at that time, in his specialty, he was nearly alone in his belief that anatase had never been made before recent times, which is not the same thing as thinking that it never been *purposefully* made, or *discovered*, or made with a modern knowledge of chemistry. :’)


20 posted on 07/23/2009 6:02:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: blam

http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/LMwebpages/


21 posted on 07/23/2009 6:06:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: gitmo

Yeah, knocked it right out of the park that time. :’)


22 posted on 07/23/2009 6:06:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: blam; nwrep

Study Says Medieval New World Map Is Real [Thank Leif Eriksson]
AP | November 27, 2003 | DIANE SCARPONI
Posted on 11/26/2003 6:19:59 PM PST by nwrep
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1029683/posts

Vindication For Vinland Map: New Study Supports Authenticity
Eureka Alert | 11-24-2003 | Michael Bernstein
Posted on 11/25/2003 10:05:18 AM PST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1028717/posts


23 posted on 07/23/2009 6:10:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: sinanju
It mentioned that Europe was eating salted cod for about century after European waters had run out.

There has been speculation that the Portuguese (for one) were fishing the "Grand Banks" off Newfoundland for years (1400s) before Columbus. How frequently these fishermen set foot upon land is unknown and most likely only for water and repairs.

As for the map, I am reminded of the classic Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck cartoon about what hunting season it is. In this case, I am not even Elmer because it does not affect me one way or another.

Lief Eriksson I do believe, this map - shrug.

24 posted on 07/23/2009 6:12:02 PM PDT by SES1066 (Cycling to conserve, Conservative to save, Saving to Retire, will Retire to Cycle.)
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To: SunkenCiv
You're right it's not a very accurate map. The depiction of Europe is fairly primitive. It's not correct as to Labrador and Newfoundland, either. The upper indentation looks like the water leading to Goose Bay. The lower "finger" looks like the northern peninsula of Newfoundland, where L'anse was IIRC, but if so they hadn't followed the east coast completely around, and didn't know the water between Labrador and Newfoundland was not enclosed.

But the real problem with the map a failure to have a hysterical label for Greenland warning the glaciers are melting and we're all gonna die if we don't raise taxes. :-))

25 posted on 07/23/2009 6:12:53 PM PDT by colorado tanker ("Ah guess I talked stupidly when I said the officer acted stupidly.")
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To: colorado tanker

:’) Thanks!


26 posted on 07/23/2009 7:04:45 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv
The Grand Banks were probably known and exploited for centuries before anyone had heard of Columbus. :')

In his book Cod, Kurlansky says the Grand Banks were known to Portugese fishermen for several centuries. Keeping those productive waters a secret from the rest of Europe meant they dominated the salted dried fish trade which was HUGE in late medieval Europe.

27 posted on 07/23/2009 7:22:25 PM PDT by Oratam
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To: Oratam
There is a reason that Portuguese live in New England, for their ancestors have been sailing to the Grand Banks since the 1200’s, at least.
28 posted on 07/23/2009 8:18:14 PM PDT by texas booster (Join FreeRepublic's Folding@Home team (Team # 36120) Cure Alzheimer's!)
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To: SunkenCiv
I'll toss this into the mix too.

I remember not that I ordered a book by Bourque ("I've just ordered a new book due out in June, 2006 titled: Red Paint People - A Lost American Culture, by Bruce Bourque.") and the order was cancelled. I think I'll try again.

Letter From Newfoundland: Homing In On The Red Paint People


29 posted on 07/23/2009 8:46:40 PM PDT by blam
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To: sinanju
There was also a mention of merchants writing an angry letter to Columbus decrying his claim to have discovered the New World

Highly unlikely. To his dying day Columbus believed he had discovered a new route to the Orient, not a New World. He denied claims from others that it was indeed a New World.

30 posted on 07/23/2009 9:27:41 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles, reality wins all the wars)
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To: SunkenCiv

If the map is authentic, why is Greenland shown as an island? [A fact not known until hundreds of years after Columbus.]


31 posted on 07/24/2009 7:44:44 AM PDT by curmudgeonII (Vocatus atque non vocatus deus aderit.)
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To: curmudgeonII

The Arctic was seasonally navigable during the Medieval warming.

By way of analogy, the reason the Nile floods when it does during the year was known to the Egyptians, who gave the information to Herodotus, who didn’t believe it, but reported it anyway. :’) In his account of the Phoenician circumnavigation of Africa, he also records what sounds like seas lousy with icebergs south of the Cape of Good Hope.

One of my web buddies reportedly had Scandinavian ancestors who traded by sea with the Far East via the Arctic waters (they left accounts).


32 posted on 07/24/2009 6:28:16 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Oratam; blam

Thanks!


33 posted on 07/24/2009 6:36:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv
See post #23.

As far as I can tell, the book was never written. I wonder if they advanced $$$ to Bourque?

34 posted on 10/22/2011 5:37:51 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Oh, you mean *this* message 23 [rib, rib]:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2299630/posts?page=29#29

Must be that’s why there are no customer reviews yet. :’)


35 posted on 10/22/2011 7:00:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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