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DNA study deals blow to theory of European origins
BBC ^ | August 23, 2011 | Paul Rincon

Posted on 08/24/2011 11:07:22 AM PDT by decimon

A new study deals a blow to the idea that most European men are descended from farmers who migrated from the Near East 5,000-10,000 years ago.

The findings challenge previous research showing that the genetic signature of the farmers displaced that of Europe's indigenous hunters.

The latest research leans towards the idea that most of Europe's males trace a line of descent to stone-age hunters.

But the authors say more work is needed to answer this question.

The study, by an international team, is published in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

Archaeological finds show that modern humans first settled in Europe from about 40,000 years ago - during a time known as the Palaeolithic.

These people survived an Ice Age some 20,000 years ago by retreating to relatively warm refuges in the south of the continent, before expanding into northern Europe again when the ice melted.

But just a few thousand years after Europe had been resettled by these hunter-gatherers, the continent underwent momentous cultural change. Farmers spread westwards from the area that is now Turkey, bringing with them a new economy and way of life.

The extent to which modern Europeans are descended from these early farmers versus the indigenous hunter-gatherers who settled the continent thousands of years previously is a matter of heated debate.

The results vary depending on the genetic markers studied and are subject to differing interpretations.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Science
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; iamnotsurprised; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals

1 posted on 08/24/2011 11:07:24 AM PDT by decimon
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To: SunkenCiv

Ja jager ping.

Maybe.


2 posted on 08/24/2011 11:08:33 AM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon
The results vary....subject to interpretation....

Send more Grant Money!!

3 posted on 08/24/2011 11:15:42 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: decimon

This is rediculous on all levels, the science if faulty, and knowing the information, as if we could, helps us exactly how?


4 posted on 08/24/2011 11:18:53 AM PDT by Scythian
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To: Scythian
This is rediculous...

More pinkiculous. A good many FReepers have shown interest in their lineage. I'm not one of those FReepers but that's neither here not there.

One possible practical use for this research is in discovering disease origination so to better find cure.

5 posted on 08/24/2011 11:29:36 AM PDT by decimon
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To: Southside_Chicago_Republican

Later.


6 posted on 08/24/2011 11:37:18 AM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." -- G.K. Chesterton)
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To: decimon

Shem, Ham, or Japheth? Has to be one of these three options.


7 posted on 08/24/2011 11:41:56 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: sr4402
Shem, Ham, or Japheth? Has to be one of these three options.

All of whom landed on Mt. Ararat at the conclusion of the great flood. As tradition has it, Shem and family moved to the north and west; Japheth and family to the east; Ham and family to the south.

Since Mt. Ararat is in the Caucasian Mountains, wouldn't that make us all Caucasians?

8 posted on 08/24/2011 11:50:27 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: decimon
I am proud to be a decedent of Neanderthals! All the great civilizations can trace their genes back to the Neanderthals...
9 posted on 08/24/2011 11:52:25 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Greed + Envy = Liberalism)
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To: Vigilanteman
Since Mt. Ararat is in the Caucasian Mountains, wouldn't that make us all Caucasians?

Funny Man.

10 posted on 08/24/2011 12:15:06 PM PDT by sr4402
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To: sr4402

Lot ~ remember those stories are very old.


11 posted on 08/24/2011 12:43:58 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Cowboy Bob
All the great civilizations can trace their genes back to the Neanderthals.
Not sure if you forgot the "/s" ... but according to a documentary I saw this week, no Neanderthal DNA can be found in any human alive today.
Just sayin' ...
12 posted on 08/24/2011 12:59:54 PM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven
. . . according to a documentary I saw this week, no Neanderthal DNA can be found in any human alive today.

And there you have a real scientific dilemma. For either the science of DNA is wrong. Or the theory of human organic evolution is wrong. Or both.

The Neanderthal is the only very tenuous missing link between man and lower level primates. Cromagnon man and others don't even come close to the tenuous level of the Neanderthal.

13 posted on 08/24/2011 1:36:53 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: muawiyah
Lot ~ remember those stories are very old.

Our church believes they are true because the Bible is true. If so, Genetics will point to a common ancestor- Noah and his three sons and their wives.

14 posted on 08/24/2011 2:22:47 PM PDT by sr4402
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To: muawiyah
Lot ~ remember those stories are very old.

Our church believes they are true because the Bible is true. If so, Genetics will point to a common ancestor- Noah and his three sons and their wives.

15 posted on 08/24/2011 2:22:47 PM PDT by sr4402
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To: sr4402
Noah has so terribly many aliases.

Ma-Nu, Nu, Ma........

It's not like God didn't leave behind numerous records of this event. There are differences in the records.

16 posted on 08/24/2011 3:21:24 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: oh8eleven
Neanderthal DNA/ancestry is found in all non-African populations. So almost all humans alive today - but not all of them.
17 posted on 08/24/2011 3:27:15 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve

in local libraries
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]

18 posted on 08/25/2011 2:55:18 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: decimon; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks decimon. Once again, I'm not surprise

sidebar: To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


19 posted on 08/25/2011 2:57:09 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Scythian
Ridiculous.
20 posted on 08/25/2011 3:26:51 AM PDT by ThanhPhero (Khach hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: decimon
Makes me see why someone would take the easy way out and just say, “The world is 6000 years old and and God put us here as is.”

The fact we don't know our history from as little as 10,000 years ago says a lot of our possibilities of knowing anything about ourselves 10,000 years from now.

Time is fleeting.

21 posted on 08/25/2011 5:10:40 AM PDT by wolfcreek (Perry to Obama: Adios, MOFO!)
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To: allmendream
Neanderthal DNA/ancestry is found in all non-African populations.
And yet the show I saw claimed none. ??? Oh well ...
22 posted on 08/25/2011 5:30:36 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven
At the time the “show” you watched was made - that might well have been the current state of knowledge.

But it is clear from the sequencing of Neanderthal DNA that every non-African population of humans has about 1-4% Neanderthal ancestry.

23 posted on 08/25/2011 6:12:01 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: muawiyah
It's not like God didn't leave behind numerous records of this event.

Actually most are man made, with significant weird embellishments. Genesis stands above all the rest, with endorsements from the the Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostles Paul and Peter.

That is why Genesis is considered Sacred Scripture as opposed to all the others.

24 posted on 08/25/2011 6:40:10 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: sr4402
Moses claimed to have written it (no doubt inspired by God Himself and assisted with various notes and tablets brought over to Egypt from the old country)

Writing in Sumer was exported to Egypt ~ similar system, just fancier pictures. Both were ideographs, with Sumer gravitating to a very simplified cuniform wedge style.

Moslems are the guys who argue that there's a perfect Koran in Heaven and it was handed down intact to Mohammad.

The Judeo-Christian tradition is that we are inspired by God and real humans do the writing job.

25 posted on 08/25/2011 6:51:42 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Vigilanteman
In fact, neither does the Neanderthal.

There are people who imagine earlier humans were tied to the land and didn't move around much. At the same time a few thousand Neanderthals could pretty much cover the entire landmass of Europe without much effort. They were pretty dangerous themselves and could kill, munch and eat their way across about any space they cared to.

Genes get passed in transit ~ that's the way it is. To think it didn't happen in the good old days is simply not realistic.

26 posted on 08/25/2011 6:56:19 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: decimon
"The findings challenge previous research showing that the genetic signature of the farmers displaced that of Europe's indigenous hunters. "

This is the same conclusion reached years ago by professor Stephen Oppenheimer and detailed in his book, The Origins Of The British.

He shows that the DNA in Brittain today can be traced back to the very early and original settlers of that land.

27 posted on 08/25/2011 7:08:21 AM PDT by blam
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To: muawiyah
The Judeo-Christian tradition is that we are inspired by God and real humans do the writing job.

Actually it is that certain men were chosen by God, inspired by Him, and supervised by Him in the writing of Scripture.

28 posted on 08/25/2011 7:33:18 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: decimon; SunkenCiv

We may as well stop all scientific inquiry and research, unless it will bear fruit in just a few years or modify human caused global warming.

After all, lots of scientists suscribe to the theory that the Earth and all who live here are doomed because of global warming within the next few years.

And this wasn’t caused by all humans. No. It was the greedy Amerikan conservatives led by George Bush that are responsible for destroying the planet.

Say, if this is true, couldn’t we cut the budget for these last few years by cutting off all government grants for useless scientific research. Just sayin’


29 posted on 08/25/2011 8:16:13 AM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Maybe that’s why novocaine never seems to work all that well for me...


30 posted on 08/25/2011 8:26:44 AM PDT by ReagansShinyHair
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To: decimon; SunkenCiv
If I get this right, as farmers moved west, the people already there figured out that farming was a better gig than the hunter-gatherer thing? So, instead of being displaced, they converted? Makes sense to me.

N.B. Whatever happened to the tradition that the GGG threads were off limits to the evo-crevo wars?

31 posted on 08/25/2011 10:50:38 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: muawiyah
You are not only correct, but what you say rings even more true for hunter-gatherer cultures as opposed to farming cultures.

It took the Mandan more than a millennium to move from the Virginia coastline to the eastern Ohio River Valley to their final home in the Upper Missouri River valley because they were tied to the land through agriculture.

It took their more aggressive Sioux cousins less than half that time to cover basically the same ground and move even further west because they were not.

To this day, even some professionals are baffled by how the Sioux and Mandan came to possess certain iron tools before the white man arrived, even when it is clear that tribal cousins in the eastern Ohio River Valley and Michigan knew how to work with iron.

Human history does not take place in a vacuum which only begins to change when another culture comes in contact with them. I'm sure the same is true with the Neanderthal. That's why I'm skeptical as to whether DNA science is either as complete or omnipotent as its proponents claim.

32 posted on 08/25/2011 11:00:27 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: wolfcreek
Time is fleeting

Right. Tempus fidgits.

33 posted on 08/25/2011 2:54:57 PM PDT by Ole Okie (!!)
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To: Ole Okie

“Tempus fidgits”

That’s what I do when I have too much time on my hands.


34 posted on 08/25/2011 5:06:45 PM PDT by SuzyQue
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To: colorado tanker

;’) Yeah, good one. :’)


35 posted on 08/26/2011 4:39:53 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: oh8eleven

Then it wasn’t a documentary, it was a crockumentary.


36 posted on 08/26/2011 4:44:29 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: sr4402

Actually the best place to discuss that is in the religion forum right here on FR.


37 posted on 08/26/2011 4:47:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: decimon; Vigilanteman; Cowboy Bob; muawiyah; allmendream; ThanhPhero; blam; wildbill

Thanks!


38 posted on 08/26/2011 4:50:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: decimon

Translation of the article: ‘We don’t know jack.”


39 posted on 08/26/2011 4:52:59 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (At best, all the Republicans are willing to give the Federal Behemoth is a slight haircut.)
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