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At 400,000 Years, Oldest Human DNA Yet Found Raises New Mysteries
The New York Times ^ | 04 Dec 2013 | Carl Zimmer

Posted on 12/04/2013 12:31:08 PM PST by Theoria

Scientists have found the oldest DNA evidence yet of humans’ biological history. But instead of neatly clarifying human evolution, the finding is adding new mysteries.

In a paper in the journal Nature, scientists reported Wednesday that they had retrieved ancient human DNA from a fossil dating back about 400,000 years, shattering the previous record of 100,000 years.

The fossil, a thigh bone found in Spain, had previously seemed to many experts to belong to a forerunner of Neanderthals. But its DNA tells a very different story. It most closely resembles DNA from an enigmatic lineage of humans known as Denisovans. Until now, Denisovans were known only from DNA retrieved from 80,000-year-old remains in Siberia, 4,000 miles east of where the new DNA was found.

The mismatch between the anatomical and genetic evidence surprised the scientists, who are now rethinking human evolution over the past few hundred thousand years. It is possible, for example, that there are many extinct human populations that scientists have yet to discover. They might have interbred, swapping DNA. Scientists hope that further studies of extremely ancient human DNA will clarify the mystery.

“Right now, we’ve basically generated a big question mark,” said Matthias Meyer, a geneticist at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, and a co-author of the new study.

Hints at new hidden complexities in the human story came from a 400,000-year-old femur found in a cave in Spain called Sima de los Huesos (“the pit of bones” in Spanish). The scientific team used new methods to extract the ancient DNA from the fossil.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: ancestry; denisovans; dna; fauxiantrolls; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; idiotsonfr; mtdna; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals
Also:

400 thousand year old human mtDNA from Sima de los Huesos


1 posted on 12/04/2013 12:31:08 PM PST by Theoria
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To: Theoria

Fascinating. Thanks for posting.


2 posted on 12/04/2013 12:35:48 PM PST by Natufian (t)
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To: Theoria
But instead of neatly clarifying human evolution, the finding is adding new mysteries...

The mismatch between the anatomical and genetic evidence surprised the scientists, who are now rethinking human evolution over the past few hundred thousand years...

So? Just rewrite your facts. That's what the Global Warming bozo's do. When your latest "fact" contradicts the last "fact", then roll with it.

3 posted on 12/04/2013 12:37:14 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Theoria

Keep trying to figure out the mind of G-d without admitting it. The arrogance of man is...less than a piece of sand on G-d’s beach and has been right about absolutely nothing.


4 posted on 12/04/2013 12:39:04 PM PST by MestaMachine (My caps work. You gotta earn them.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping, possible interest?


5 posted on 12/04/2013 12:49:14 PM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free..... Even robots will kill for it!)
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To: Responsibility2nd
As the new finds roll in it is becoming increasingly obvious that the human evolutionists should have the intellectual honesty to admit that at present they do not know how Homo Sapiens came into being. I'm no man is 6000 years old fanatic. It is OK for science to admit they do not know.
6 posted on 12/04/2013 12:51:30 PM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Theoria

after scientists faking 30 years of global warming research, studies and experiments do I trust anything scientists , the media , gov etc say ? NO


7 posted on 12/04/2013 12:55:07 PM PST by Democrat_media (Obama ordered IRS to rig 2012 election and must resign)
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To: Theoria

The DNA form King Tut seemed to indicate that he was Irish at first. It turned out that he is related to half of the male population of Europe destroying the out of Africa theory for the Pharaohs.


8 posted on 12/04/2013 12:55:33 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: Theoria

Bayesian statistical methods are prone to gross errors in a priori assumptions. They are nowhere near a gold standard.

The problem with these ‘evolutionary trees’ is that the more they are circulated without discounting them for obvious overreaching inferences, the more they become mainstream to the point that they are accepted as incontrovertible.

Radio carbon dating methods have also come under increased scrutiny with an increase in uncertainty and controversy.

Science in general is undergoing a process of renewing its strict disciplines as many of the ‘results’ of the latter part of last century’s science have been compromised by politics and ideology, i.e. Lysenkoism has returned with a vengeance.


9 posted on 12/04/2013 12:58:36 PM PST by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Theoria
It's 30 below zero wind chill in the Norther USA

scientists , the media , government have been yelling “global warming” for 30 years

i don't believe anything the media says

I don't believe anything government says

I don't believe anything scientists say

may they all go jump in the lake

long live freedom and capitalism

10 posted on 12/04/2013 1:03:53 PM PST by Democrat_media (Obama ordered IRS to rig 2012 election and must resign)
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To: Theoria
Read more at nytimes.com ...

Definitely fascinating stuff, but... if it's in the New York Times, it's most probably communist propaganda or factual material heavily slanted toward communism. I'll wait for genuine science to show up.

11 posted on 12/04/2013 1:05:15 PM PST by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: Theoria
It is possible, for example, that there are many extinct human populations that scientists have yet to discover. They might have interbred, swapping DNA.

Our ancestors sure were horny and not picky.:)

12 posted on 12/04/2013 1:26:27 PM PST by C19fan
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To: mountainlion
...desroying the out of Africa theory for the Pharaohs.

The Pharaohs weren't out of Africa...they were in Africa...if you don't count an occasional campaign in western Asia.

13 posted on 12/04/2013 1:27:06 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Theoria

This doesn’t surprise me. Scientists are just like everyone else.


14 posted on 12/04/2013 1:30:14 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Theoria

I have full faith that many won’t let any new discoveries get in the way of their cool story, bro.


15 posted on 12/04/2013 1:30:22 PM PST by OldNewYork (Biden '13. Impeach now.)
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The “tree” is rooted using chimps. Didn’t Dawkins say we didn’t evolve from chimps? Or do the theories differ from scientist to scientist like the beliefs about what whales evolved from?


16 posted on 12/04/2013 1:34:07 PM PST by Hayride
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To: mountainlion

Some of the Asian finds also contradict the out of Africa theory.


17 posted on 12/04/2013 1:39:33 PM PST by meatloaf
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To: Verginius Rufus

The out of Africa theory was that civilization came out of Africa into Egypt and spread into Europe. The Egyptian Pharaohs were thought to be African not European.


18 posted on 12/04/2013 2:32:04 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: C19fan
Our ancestors sure were horny and not picky.:)

Well, they've traced them back to Spain now. They say the ladies are insane there. ;^)

19 posted on 12/04/2013 2:32:38 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: Theoria
Excellent Article. Thanks

Denisova Hominin

Denisova hominins /dəˈniːsəvə/, or Denisovans, are Paleolithic-era members of a species of Homo or subspecies of Homo sapiens. In March 2010, scientists announced the discovery of a finger bone fragment of a juvenile female who lived about 41,000 years ago, found in the remote Denisova Cave in the Altai Mountains in Siberia, a cave which has also been inhabited by Neanderthals and modern humans.[1][2][3] Two teeth and a toe bone belonging to different members of the same population have since been reported. On 4 December 2013, scientists reported that they had retrieved ancient Denisova DNA from a hominin femur fossil found in Spain dating back about 400,000 years.[4]

Analysis of the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of the finger bone showed it to be genetically distinct from the mtDNAs of Neanderthals and modern humans.[5] Subsequent study of the nuclear genome from this specimen suggests that this group shares a common origin with Neanderthals, that they ranged from Siberia to Southeast Asia, and that they lived among and interbred with the ancestors of some present-day modern humans, with up to 6% of the DNA of Melanesians and Australian Aborigines deriving from Denisovans.[6][7] A comparison with the genome of a Neanderthal from the same cave revealed significant local interbreeding, with local Neanderthal DNA representing 17% of the Denisovan genome, while evidence was also detected of interbreeding with an as yet unidentified ancient human lineage.[8] Similar analysis of a toe bone discovered in 2011 is underway,[9] while analysis of DNA from two teeth found in different layers than the finger bone revealed an unexpected degree of mtDNA divergence among Denisovans

(snip)

20 posted on 12/04/2013 4:38:35 PM PST by blam
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To: Theoria
Sima de los Huesos in Spain


21 posted on 12/04/2013 5:04:38 PM PST by Dysart (Obamacare: "We are losing money on every subscriber-- but we will make it up in volume!")
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To: blam

I’ve always wondered about the authorities you find truthful - NYT says it all now don’t it?!?!

:’)


22 posted on 12/04/2013 5:08:18 PM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels
I don't like/trust the NYT either but:

They're quoting this article in Nature.

23 posted on 12/04/2013 5:23:23 PM PST by blam
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To: Darksheare; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

Thanks Darksheare.
The fossil, a thigh bone found in Spain, had previously seemed to many experts to belong to a forerunner of Neanderthals. But its DNA tells a very different story. It most closely resembles DNA from an enigmatic lineage of humans known as Denisovans. Until now, Denisovans were known only from DNA retrieved from 80,000-year-old remains in Siberia, 4,000 miles east of where the new DNA was found.
Gosh, it's almost as if each of us loses half of the genetic information found in our parents, just as they lost half of their parents', etc. And best of all, that means that we don't get the same amount from each of our grandparents, and this process works for each previous and subsequent generation -- basically, we have 46 family trees which follow back along each half of each chromosome. By the time we reach those 64 4th-great-grandparents, at least 18 of them have passed down nothing at all.

24 posted on 12/04/2013 6:06:46 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: blam

[singing] Blame it on the Denisovans, the hominins...


25 posted on 12/04/2013 6:09:11 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv
By the time we reach those 64 4th-great-grandparents, at least 18 of them have passed down nothing at all.

At least not to you, but perhaps to your cousins, second cousins, third cousins, nth cousins...

26 posted on 12/04/2013 6:10:14 PM PST by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: null and void; SunkenCiv

for most people participation in this physical plane is devolution


27 posted on 12/04/2013 6:18:00 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: SunkenCiv

sorry...just couldn't resist...

28 posted on 12/04/2013 7:05:39 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: Fred Nerks

Thanks. Way too funny. Must be the coffee.


29 posted on 12/04/2013 8:28:42 PM PST by Theoria (Obama lied. My health care died.)
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To: mountainlion
I once heard a lecture by an "Afrocentric" professor who insisted that Egypt is part of Africa, not part of the "Middle East," which gives African-Americans bragging rights (because Africa had developed civilization before Europe).

DNA studies seem to indicate that Homo sapiens originated in Africa, so all human beings are "out of Africa."

Actually, the DNA studies were not needed. One of my high school classmates proved it from the Bible. Adam named all the animals, so the Garden of Eden must have been in Africa for him to name the lion.

30 posted on 12/04/2013 8:34:25 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: blam; Theoria; SunkenCiv; no-to-illegals; All

Here is another really interesting and very long article focusing on the Denisovans and their tine and distance relationship to Neanderthals, modern humans, Chimpanzees, etc.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v468/n7327/full/nature09710.html

I hope this is the right one, it is really late and I am too tired to check. Maybe tomorrow.


31 posted on 12/05/2013 12:25:13 AM PST by gleeaikin
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS; Theoria
AEMILIUS PAULUS: "As the new finds roll in it is becoming increasingly obvious that the human evolutionists should have the intellectual honesty to admit that at present they do not know how Homo Sapiens came into being.
I'm no man is 6000 years old fanatic.
It is OK for science to admit they do not know."

Strictly speaking, science itself claims to know nothing -- zero, zip, nada -- beyond what it actually knows through confirmed observations (aka "facts") and hypotheses (aka "theories").
Even they are subject to epistemic and ontological questioning (i.e., "are you certain?").

Out beyond those is nothing but doubt and speculations, what Isaac Newton called the: "great ocean of truth [which] lay all undiscovered before me. "

32 posted on 12/05/2013 5:54:47 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: gleeaikin
The truth is ... of what is known by we that exist on planet Earth. Is not pretty but is the truth.

What we know to be true fills ten pages in one very small book. What we do not know fills infinite volumes of books in infinite libraries on infinite planets.

As said ... is not pretty but is the truth and being the intelligent person you are gleeaikin, I have to believe you knew this truth, thus pardon my wasted post.

33 posted on 12/05/2013 6:20:35 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: Theoria

courtesy ping.


34 posted on 12/05/2013 6:22:50 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: Democrat_media
may they all go jump in the Frozen lake
35 posted on 12/05/2013 6:26:22 AM PST by MaxMax (Pay Attention and you'll be pissed off too! FIRE BOEHNER, NOW!)
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To: Verginius Rufus

There were Lions in Syria and Persia (Iran) in ancient times. DNA has caused many to call into question the out of Africa theory, that is all it is is a theory.


36 posted on 12/05/2013 6:28:57 AM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: Fred Nerks

So dang funny. Liberals must have that frame-stamped into their minds.


37 posted on 12/05/2013 6:32:51 AM PST by MaxMax (Pay Attention and you'll be pissed off too! FIRE BOEHNER, NOW!)
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To: gleeaikin; Theoria; SunkenCiv
Ancient Humans Had Sex With A Mystery Species (Not Neanderthals Or Denisovans)
38 posted on 12/05/2013 6:35:02 AM PST by blam
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To: mountainlion
Herodotus claims that Xerxes' pack-camels were attacked by lions (in Macedonia) and describes an area of the Balkans which supposedly abounded in lions (7.125-126).

There's the Lion Gate at Mycenae and the story of Heracles (Hercules) and the Nemean lion (Nemea is in the same region of Greece as Mycenae), but I don't know if there is any physical evidence for lions in Greece or the Balkans.

39 posted on 12/05/2013 9:00:44 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
It is OK for science to admit they do not know.

Science, and scientists do.

If someone doesn't, they aren't scientists, no matter their claim.

40 posted on 12/05/2013 9:42:00 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (Damn ObamaCare, full speed ahead!)
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To: MaxMax

it is frozen . global warming my ass


41 posted on 12/05/2013 10:27:45 AM PST by Democrat_media (Obama ordered IRS to rig 2012 election and must resign)
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To: Verginius Rufus

There is physical evidence for European lions. Fossils, cave paintings, and other fossils with lion teeth marks on the bones.


42 posted on 12/05/2013 11:30:42 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Democrat_media
In skydiving we would call jumping in a frozen lake, bouncing.
I encourage all population bomb believers to try it, once.
43 posted on 12/05/2013 12:00:36 PM PST by MaxMax (Pay Attention and you'll be pissed off too! FIRE BOEHNER, NOW!)
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To: gleeaikin

44 posted on 12/05/2013 3:01:48 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: blam
Bill, you said that human origin's were going to get strange.
45 posted on 12/05/2013 3:23:44 PM PST by Little Bill (A)
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To: Little Bill
"Bill, you said that human origin's were going to get strange. "

BTO

46 posted on 12/20/2013 10:15:16 AM PST by blam
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