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Ancient American Skeleton Has European DNA Link
ABC News.com ^ | 11-27-2000

Posted on 05/11/2006 5:09:23 PM PDT by blam

Ancient American Skeleton Has European DNA Link

[Original headline: Sinkhole Skeleton Skeleton’s DNA Could Shed Light on American Migrations]

Vanlue, Ohio [AP] — The discovery of prehistoric tools from an Ohio cave is one of several finds that has scientists questioning the identity of settlers thought to have moved in 11,000 years ago.

A just completed excavation of Sheriden Cave in Wyandot County, 100 miles southwest of Cleveland, revealed tools made from flaked stone and bone. The items are scheduled to go on display next year at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History.

Kent State University archaeologist Kenneth Tankersley, who led the excavation over the past four years, said definite answers won’t come until someone finds an Ice Age skeleton and the DNA is tested.

Rare Genetic Link to Europe

“Disagreement swirls around the timing of their arrival, the nature of their migration, how fast they moved across the landscape and their relationship to contemporary Native Americans,” he said.

Some scientists think that the earliest colonizers could have started out somewhere in Europe, not in Asia as previously thought. That idea is rooted in a rare genetic link called haplogroup X - DNA passed down through women that dates back more than 30,000 years.

Recent genetic samples from remains in Illinois show that the rare European DNA was around centuries before European exploration. Today, haplogroup X is found in about 20,000 American Indians.

To some researchers, its presence suggests the Mongolian ancestors of most American Indians were latecomers. Genetic tests show the DNA is completely absent from East Asian and Siberian populations.

That could dispel the more than half-century old notion that humans migrated across a land bridge from Siberia at the end of the Ice Age, made stone tools and hunted while moving south.

Archaeologists since 1996 have found genetic indications of several migrations, along with evidence that people came from Polynesia, regions near Japan and even western Europe.

Skeleton Has Scientists Jumpy

“Frankly, it makes me nervous,” Smithsonian Institution anthropologist Stephen Loring said of the idea that the first Americans during the Ice Age were of European ancestry.

“It’s a heretical argument, and some people, unfortunately, will use it to assert the cultural superiority of Europeans. But it’s a good theory that needs to be tested.”

Tankersley and Brian Redmond, head of archaeology at the Cleveland Natural History Museum, have been seeking clues about the first colonizers from the cave, which is hidden 50 feet below cornfields.

“To find human remains of that age, 11,000 years old, is really, really rare, and I don’t think there are any in that cavern. We would have found them,” Redmond said. But he added, “Who knows what may turn up in the future. We’re certain it was a camping area.”

Farmers and landowners fear they could be tied up in litigation by preservationists and Indian tribes if old bones are disturbed.

“We know of places where you could probably find human remains up here,” said Keith Hendricks, a Hancock County sheriff’s deputy whose family owns the sinkhole where the Ice Age relics have been recovered. “But the problem is you’d be opening a Pandora’s box. It’s a sensitive issue.”

• Story originally published by •
ABCNEWS.com - November 27 2000


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: american; ancient; archaeology; dna; european; godsgravesglyphs; has; helixmakemineadouble; kennethtankersley; link; precolumbian; skeleton; tankersley
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1 posted on 05/11/2006 5:09:27 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

If the Indians were not the first people here, does that mean that they are not true "native Americans" and that they stole the land from the indigenous people?


2 posted on 05/11/2006 5:13:08 PM PDT by djpg
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To: SunkenCiv
GGG Ping.

This is an old article. It was originally posted on FR by Machman on 11-27-2000, It was 'locked-out' when JimRob changed the software.

Here's the original posting: Sinkhole Skeleton (European "Native Americans?")

3 posted on 05/11/2006 5:14:18 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

a misleading headline, but interesting story


4 posted on 05/11/2006 5:14:25 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: blam
“It’s a heretical argument, and some people, unfortunately, will use it to assert the cultural superiority of Europeans...."

No, I won't use it to assert the cultural superiority of my ancestors, but I will use it against anybody that uses the argument, "we were here first, therefore we're entitled to __________".

5 posted on 05/11/2006 5:14:26 PM PDT by randog (What the...?!)
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To: blam
Somebody tell Fabian Nunez.

That the truth is more complex than anybody realized should be the baseline assumption.

6 posted on 05/11/2006 5:15:47 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: djpg

I guess we get to keep the Southwest now.


7 posted on 05/11/2006 5:17:21 PM PDT by Flyer (Tag line changed to appease Lurker)
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To: djpg
"If the Indians were not the first people here, does that mean that they are not true "native Americans" and that they stole the land from the indigenous people?"

The DNA evidence suggests that there was at least some assimilation. The Obijawe(sp) Indians have the highest percent (25%) of this 'X-gene' today.

8 posted on 05/11/2006 5:18:00 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
We are definitely going to win this argument, and send the asiatic migration koolaide drinkers back to write new books. (Even the Algonkin claim european ancestry in their verbal history)

See also: the legend of the great horn

9 posted on 05/11/2006 5:18:55 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: kinoxi
"a misleading headline, but interesting story"

I agree but, if you follow the link, IMO, the original title was also.

10 posted on 05/11/2006 5:19:37 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

kenowick man ping


11 posted on 05/11/2006 5:21:25 PM PDT by Para-Ord.45
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To: blam
"a misleading headline, but interesting story"

I agree but, if you follow the link, IMO, the original title was also.

Had me going too. I thought is was something new.

I have been following mtDNA closely of late, as we have some data coming in that may help unravel one of the other migrations.

12 posted on 05/11/2006 5:23:31 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: blam
“It’s a heretical argument, and some people, unfortunately, will use it to assert the cultural superiority of Europeans. But it’s a good theory that needs to be tested.”

It's hilarious how firmly PC has metasticised in ceertain occupations.
Stephen, nothing further is need to assert the cultural superiority of Europeans or anything else that is self-evident.

What is making many individuals wet their knickers is the possibility that Europeans may soon be sending Indians a huge bill for rent for the last 12,000 years of imperial occupation, without having the brains (or the good sense) to invent writing!

13 posted on 05/11/2006 5:24:52 PM PDT by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: blam
“Frankly, it makes me nervous,” Smithsonian Institution anthropologist Stephen Loring said of the idea that the first Americans during the Ice Age were of European ancestry.


14 posted on 05/11/2006 5:26:31 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
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To: blam

I'm opening a casino!


15 posted on 05/11/2006 5:33:25 PM PDT by 359Henrie (We cannot deport 12 million can we? Si, se puede!)
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To: blam

Both the mythology and the physiognomies of the Ojibwa seem to have European echoes.


16 posted on 05/11/2006 5:36:41 PM PDT by From many - one.
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To: xcamel
Here's a possible explanation I made on the below linked thread

Letter From Newfoundland: Homing In On The Red Paint People

If you take this Journey Of Mankind developed from the DNA studies of Stephen Oppenheimer, near the end, he shows a group of people entering the NE US at Meadowcroft 25,000 years ago and then becoming exiled (isolated) during the subsequent Last Glacial Maximum(LGM), 18-23,000 years ago.
Now, if you believe that the oldest (undisputed) Mongoloid skeleton ever found is only 10,000 years old as Oppenheimer claims, then the people who arrived at Meadowcroft were not 'Native Americans' as defined today.
My suspicion is that they were (more or less) of the Ainu (Kennewick Man) body style (racial group) and may be the source of the halpogroup-X (some call it the European 'gene') shared only by some of today's American Indians and Europeans.
Most of the oldest skeletons & skulls (not exclusively) being found in the Americas are of the long narrow type associated with Kennewick Man. And, Oppenheimer say that the Obajiwe(sp) Indians of the NE US have the highest precent (25) of the 'X-gene' than all other Indians in the US.

So, might these people of the NE US, the Red Paint People and others (reported to be tall and lighter skinned) be remnants of this group from 25,000 years ago?

17 posted on 05/11/2006 5:40:30 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
“Frankly, it makes me nervous,” Smithsonian Institution anthropologist Stephen Loring said of the idea that the first Americans during the Ice Age were of European ancestry.

“It’s a heretical argument, and some people, unfortunately, will use it to assert the cultural superiority of Europeans.

What is this guy saying?

How does someone like this get hired at the Smithsonian?

18 posted on 05/11/2006 5:47:31 PM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: blam
Journey Of Mankind
19 posted on 05/11/2006 5:49:49 PM PDT by blam
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To: Publius6961

Several early American populations invented writing.


20 posted on 05/11/2006 5:49:53 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: blam
Absolutely.

Other truths:

North America was around 400 miles closer to Europe then

Seas were roughly 100M lower than now at LGM

Sea ice was fixed in position from Nova Scotia to the English Channel

Whales and game roamed freely between europe and north america.

There was no Beringa Ice Plug in the north atlantic.

Inuit have been crossing 2000 miles of solid ice and tundra (northwest passage) for 5000 years.

Artifacts are regularly found out on the continental shelf, but by law and ignorance are forced to be turned over to "native tribes" never to be seen again because they prove that the mongoloids were not anywhere near "first"

21 posted on 05/11/2006 5:52:29 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: BenLurkin

Politically correct people like this Smithsonian guy do not pursue the truth. They only accept that which supports their erroneous theories.

Glory be to God! I always knew my Irish ancestors were the first to set foot in this country.


22 posted on 05/11/2006 6:00:58 PM PDT by Palladin ("Governor Lynn Swann."...it has a nice ring to it!)
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To: Coyoteman
International HapMap Project
23 posted on 05/11/2006 6:04:51 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Maybe the "reconquista" happened in the 1500's by the Europeans such as the Spanish and English.

It appears that the big game was driven north by the hunters so during the ice age those hunters might have chased the animals all the way to America or they might have been forced to live on walrus and fish along the ice, which would have served as a land bridge to bring them to America.

If these Europeans were absorbed into the larger later arriving Asian influx, there should be DNA traces in these natives that would be of non-Asian origin and "relatives" could be matched in Europe. This might answer the question of who were the first Europeans as well.

Academia will be in no hurry to make these connections due to political concerns but the technology is becoming common enough where amateurs will be able to do this kind of research.

24 posted on 05/11/2006 6:07:41 PM PDT by Jim_Curtis
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To: BenLurkin
What is this guy saying?

Bozo is basically saying, "OMG, no! Don't say the DNA is white! Aborigine, Eskimo, say it's Piltdown man's first cousin, but don't say it's white!

And of course, Bozo, himself, is white, and his theology is being rocked. That is, nothing good comes from being white which is why the whole third world is beating feet ASAP to get into white majority countries.

25 posted on 05/11/2006 6:22:56 PM PDT by xJones
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To: muawiyah
"Several early American populations invented writing."

The Maya but, apparently no alphabet.

Who else?

26 posted on 05/11/2006 6:23:56 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
The Sumerians, who invented writing, never invented an alphabet. Their system, the first known writing, was based on the use of hieroglyphs.

No European people is known to have ever invented writing either.

27 posted on 05/11/2006 6:25:44 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: blam

I demand reparations!


28 posted on 05/11/2006 6:25:59 PM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (Buy 'Allah' brand urinal cakes - If you can't kill the enemy at least you can piss on their god)
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To: blam
The quippu method of the Peruvians appears to be an actual writing method, not just a memnonic device. We simply haven't decoded it as yet.

I'd like to add that the Plains Indians sign language is pretty obviously identical with the Chinese Shang Dynasty characters. I suspect it was brought to the Americas circa 1700 BC by people previously living in Mongolia and other parts of Central Asia.

There they built what are called deer stones. 6 such devices have been found in Brown County, Indiana. 1 is located at Storey, Indiana. Locally called "Stone Head" it happens to have the same "face" as many of the better known Mongolian deer stones.

Many such stones have petroglyphs carved into them.

We know the Na Dene people arrived about 7,000 years ago, but there's really nothing keeping other Turkic people from arriving 3700 years ago.

29 posted on 05/11/2006 6:31:39 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: BenLurkin

More white bashing. It's only pc to bash whites and Christians.


30 posted on 05/11/2006 6:34:03 PM PDT by Spirited
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To: blam
Would someone please forward this thread to La Voz de Aztlan, M.E.C.H.A., the Mexican Embassy in California and to Antonio Villaraigosa?

Thanks.

(Mexico steals the land from Spain without paying them, stays 25 years as Landlord, then accuses the US of stealing it after we beat their asses against Santa Ana's huge army, pay 15 million for the land, plus payment on claims against Mexican govt. Now they want it back? I don't THINK so. They're lucky Russia didn't get it before us.)

31 posted on 05/11/2006 6:38:48 PM PDT by libertylass
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To: blam
Would someone please forward this thread to La Voz de Aztlan, M.E.C.H.A., the Mexican Embassy in California and to Antonio Villaraigosa?

Thanks.

(Mexico steals the land from Spain without paying them, stays 25 years as Landlord, then accuses the US of stealing it after we beat their asses against Santa Ana's huge army, pay 15 million for the land, plus payment on claims against Mexican govt. Now they want it back? I don't THINK so. They're lucky Russia didn't get it before us.)

32 posted on 05/11/2006 6:39:36 PM PDT by libertylass
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To: blam

OK.

When can I petition for my Casino then?


33 posted on 05/11/2006 6:42:15 PM PDT by Wiseghy ("You want to break this army? Then break your word to it.")
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To: blam
International HapMap Project

I found everything but the map.

Do they have an actual interactive map (and I missed it), or is everything text based?

(I appreciate the link.)

34 posted on 05/11/2006 6:45:55 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: Coyoteman
"I found everything but the map."

I didn't have much luck there. I thought perhaps you'd do better, lol. (Being more familiar with this sort of stuff.) I'm still having problems with the correct spelling of haplotype/group.

35 posted on 05/11/2006 6:50:50 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
“It’s a heretical argument, and some people, unfortunately, will use it to assert the cultural superiority of Europeans.

Which some people is he talking about? If he is a scientist he should be working the science, not troubling himself with the non-PC implications.

36 posted on 05/11/2006 6:54:35 PM PDT by Plutarch
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To: muawiyah

37 posted on 05/11/2006 6:56:11 PM PDT by blam
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To: muawiyah
"I suspect it was brought to the Americas circa 1700 BC by people previously living in Mongolia and other parts of Central Asia."

Probably in 1159 BC when the tree-rings recorded a severe worldwide event which coincided with the collapse of the Shang Dynasty, loss of 'mandate from heaven.' Chinese writings recorded that '250,000 took to the sea' at that time. There were other worldwide affecting events at 1628 BC and 2354 BC too. So...

38 posted on 05/11/2006 7:04:26 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Still, the alphabet derived from Phoenicia has a direct path back through the Egyptian hieroglyphs from which those letters were drawn to the Sumerian scribes who GAVE hieroglyphs to the Egyptians.

Syllabary's are different ~ e.g. Korean, Cherokee, etc.

We actually have historic records identifying those inventors.

There's a possibility that a body of Sumerian hieroglyphs were drawn from a body of shamanistic symbols developed in Central Asia many thousands of years earlier.

Still, many of the Sumerian hieroglyphs are clearly a result of rolling livestock and granary markers in mud.

39 posted on 05/11/2006 7:06:25 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: BenLurkin

That's "science" for you.


40 posted on 05/11/2006 7:09:04 PM PDT by Cinnamon Girl (OMGIIHIHOIIC ping list)
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To: blam
I'm still having problems with the correct spelling of haplotype/group.

And yesterday I couldn't spell arkenologist, today I are one?

41 posted on 05/11/2006 7:09:04 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: blam
Could be ~ I think a careful examination of the deer stones in Brown County is in order.

They've been modified by the addition of cement collars however.

These would be the ONLY Old World pre-Columbian artifacts in the New World to which we can assign a precise date and point of origin (at least for the builders).

42 posted on 05/11/2006 7:11:12 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: djpg
"...does that mean that they are not true "native Americans" and that they stole the land from the indigenous people?"

Any of'em that were born here ARE "native Americans", just like thee and me.

43 posted on 05/11/2006 7:14:48 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: blam
“Frankly, it makes me nervous,” Smithsonian Institution anthropologist Stephen Loring said of the idea that the first Americans during the Ice Age were of European ancestry. “It’s a heretical argument, and some people, unfortunately, will use it to assert the cultural superiority of Europeans.

Oh, Geez, has this guy figured out how to capitalize on saying the politically correct thing. Must be looking for a promotion.

44 posted on 05/11/2006 7:19:21 PM PDT by Swanks
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To: blam

Hahahaha... YOU are the illegal alien, cholo.
45 posted on 05/11/2006 7:21:58 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: muawiyah
"I think a careful examination of the deer stones in Brown County is in order. "

I did a google search and found zero mention of Deer Stones in Brown County, Indiana. Do you have any links, references?

46 posted on 05/11/2006 7:24:20 PM PDT by blam
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To: All

did they find an ancient can of bondo and a camaro on blocks?


47 posted on 05/11/2006 7:49:00 PM PDT by Kewlhand`tek (Those that can't , Teach. Those that can't teach , Report)
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To: 359Henrie

ROTFLMAO...I'm looking into reparations.


48 posted on 05/11/2006 7:51:54 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Bring your reparation down to the lucky 21 table, drinks on the house.


49 posted on 05/11/2006 7:58:35 PM PDT by 359Henrie (We cannot deport 12 million can we? Si, se puede!)
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To: djpg
If the Indians were not the first people here, does that mean that they are not true "native Americans" and that they stole the land from the indigenous people?

IMHO, if you are born here and accept the Pledge of Allegiance (with or without God in it), you ARE a Native American. That's the end of the story and exactly what I taught my kids. They are not hyphenated anything. They are Native Americans and it does not matter a damn which stone age DNA got here first. That stuff is all nonsense which ever way people want to spin it.

50 posted on 05/11/2006 7:59:05 PM PDT by Ditto
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