Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Y Chromosomes Sketch New Outline of British History
NY Times ^ | May 27, 2003 | NICHOLAS WADE

Posted on 05/27/2003 3:49:55 PM PDT by Pharmboy

History books favor stories of conquest, not of continuity, so it is perhaps not surprising that many Englishmen grow up believing they are a fighting mixture of the Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Vikings and Normans who invaded Britain. The defeated Celts, by this reckoning, left their legacy only in the hinterlands of Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

A new genetic survey of Y chromosomes throughout the British Isles has revealed a very different story. The Celtic inhabitants of Britain were real survivors. Nowhere were they entirely replaced by the invaders and they survive in high proportions, often 50 percent or more, throughout the British Isles, according to a study by Dr. Cristian Capelli, Dr. David B. Goldstein and others at University College London.

The study, being reported today in Current Biology, was based on comparing Y chromosomes sampled throughout the British Isles with the invaders' Y chromosomes, as represented by the present-day descendants of the Danes, Vikings (in Norway) and Anglo-Saxons (in Schleswig-Holstein in northern Germany).

The survey began as a request from the British Broadcasting Corporation to look for genetic signatures of the Vikings in England, later broadened to include the Danes and Anglo-Saxons. Dr. Goldstein said that not enough money was available to study two other invaders, the Romans and the Normans, but that he felt that their demographic contribution had probably been small.

He assumed the original inhabitants of Britain could be represented by men living in Castlerea, in central Ireland, a region not reached by any foreign invader. In a study two years ago Dr. Goldstein and colleagues established that Y chromosomes of Celtic populations were almost identical with those of the Basques.

The Basques live in a mountainous refuge on the French-Spanish border and speak a language wholly unrelated to the Indo-European tongues that swept into Europe some 8,000 years ago, bringing the agricultural revolution of the Neolithic period. Hence they have long been regarded as likely remnants of the first modern humans to reach Europe some 30,000 years ago, during the Paleolithic.

By this chain of reasoning, the Celtic-speaking men, since genetically very close to the Basques, must also be drawn from the original Paleolithic inhabitants of Europe, and probably represent the first modern human inhabitants of Britain who settled the islands some 10,000 years ago, Dr. Goldstein said. These original Britons must later have adopted from Europe both the Celtic culture, evidence of which appears from some 3,000 years ago, and the Celtic language, which is a branch of the Indo-European language family.

Having identified Y chromosomes assumed typical of the original Britons, Dr. Goldstein and his team could assess the demographic impact of the invaders. They found that the Vikings left a heavy genetic imprint in the Orkneys, the islands off the northeast coast of Scotland, which were a center of Viking operations between A.D. 800 and 1200. Many men in York and east England carry Danish Y chromosomes. But surprisingly, there is little sign of Anglo-Saxon heritage in southern England.

"One tends to think of England as Anglo-Saxon," Dr. Goldstein said. "But we show quite clearly there was not complete replacement of existing populations by either Anglo-Saxons or Danes. It looks like the Celts did hold out."

The Y chromosome measures only the activities of men. In a survey reported two years ago, Dr. Goldstein and colleagues examined British mitochondrial DNA, a genetic element inherited through the mother. Surprisingly, the British maternal heritage turned out to be more like that of northern Europeans than British Y chromosomes are.

To explain that finding, it is not necessary to assume Britain was invaded by an army of Amazons, Dr. Goldstein said, or that the Celts had suddenly decided to replace their Celtic wives with women from the Middle East. More probably, since Celts in Britain remained in contact with those in Europe, there were continual exchanges that included women. As in many cultures, the Celtic men stayed put while women moved to their husbands' villages.

So over time, Britain's female population would gradually have become more like that of Northern Europe, Dr. Goldstein suggested.

British historians have generally emphasized the Roman and Anglo-Saxon contributions to English culture at the expense of the Celtic. A recent history of Britain, "The Isles" by Norman Davies, tried to redress the balance. The Celts were ignored, he noted, in part because no documentary histories remain, the Celts having regarded writing as a threat to their oral traditions. Generations of historians saw British history as beginning with Roman invasions of the first century A.D. and indeed identified with the Romans rather than the defeated Celts.

"So long as classical education and classical prejudices prevailed, educated Englishmen inevitably saw ancient Britain as an alien land," Dr. Davies writes. The new survey indicates that the genetic contribution of the Celts has been as much underestimated as their historical legacy.

Dr. Davies said in an interview that "traditionally, historians thought in terms of invasions: the Celts took over the islands, then the Romans, then the Anglo-Saxons."

"It now seems much more likely that the resident population doesn't change as much as thought," he continued. "The people stay put but are reculturalized by some new dominant culture."

The Y chromosome is a useful way of tracking men because it is passed unchanged from father to son, escaping the genetic shuffle between generations that affects the rest of the genome. Also, all men carry the same Y chromosome, a surprising situation derived from the fact that in the ancestral human population some men had no children or only daughters, so that in each generation some Y chromosomes disappeared until only one was left.

This one and only Y has the same sequence of DNA units in every man alive except for the occasional mutation that has cropped up every thousand years so and is then inherited by all that individuals' descendants. Geneticists can draw up family trees based on these mutations as branching points and then assign specific lineages to historic events or locations, like the entry of Neolithic farmers into Europe.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Unclassified; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: ancientautopsies; ancientnavigation; archaeology; basques; britain; celts; cymraeg; cymru; cymry; dna; europeanhistory; fartyshadesofgreen; genealogy; genetics; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; history; invasions; ireland; turass; unitedkingdom; wales; welsh
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-73 next last
To: Savage Beast
Looks to me like those Celtic men had the last laugh. It also looks like they had an (understandable) hankering for those Scandanavian babes.

I believe it's just the opposite. The Mitochondrial DNA line is preserved in the females. So if an invader came in and killed all the males and took their women as wives exclusively, then the DNA record would show their descendents as having 100% DNA of the conquered people and no DNA from the invaders.

41 posted on 11/29/2004 10:29:49 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Started reading this article, and ended up with 13 tabs to various linked articles..
All sort of related stuff..
Thanks for an interesting read..
42 posted on 11/29/2004 10:56:47 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marsh2
Lots of information on the Viking settlement in York may be found on this site run by the York Archaeological Trust:

Jorvik, the Vikin city

Coincidentally, I am half Scot and half Dane.

43 posted on 11/30/2004 12:27:07 AM PST by Miss Marple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: quebecois

well, not really -- the immigrants are only about 5% of the UK's population and the Indian immigrants still outnumber the Pakis


44 posted on 11/30/2004 1:27:54 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Bedford Forrest

well, the picts seem to have become the Highlander folks while the lowlander Scots are descendents of the Scotti tribe that came over from Ireland around the 1st century.


45 posted on 11/30/2004 1:29:04 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Drammach; blam

You're very welcome. But, for fairness sake, I dabble--Blam is the pro on this stuff. Perhaps he can add you to his ping list.


46 posted on 11/30/2004 6:25:20 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy; Drammach; Cronos
"You're very welcome. But, for fairness sake, I dabble--Blam is the pro on this stuff. Perhaps he can add you to his ping list."

Ha! I'm a retired chip-maker...This is just a hobby, I dabble too.

FReeper Coyoteman is our practicing archaeologist...PhD I believe. (He's the pro...)

47 posted on 11/30/2004 6:50:46 AM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: zot

ping.


48 posted on 11/30/2004 7:34:16 AM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Just mythoughts

bookmarked


49 posted on 11/30/2004 7:44:08 AM PST by Just mythoughts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FreedomCalls; blam
old links, probably expired, emphasis mine, reprised from another topic or two:
Fathers can be influential too
by Eleanor Lawrence
Biologists have warned for some years that paternal mitochondria do penetrate the human egg and survive for several hours... Erika Hagelberg from the University of Cambridge, UK, and colleagues... were carrying out a study of mitochondrial DNAs from hundreds of people from Papua-New Guinea and the Melanesian islands in order to study the history of human migration into this region of the western Pacific... People from all three mitochondrial groups live on Nguna. And, in all three groups, Hagelberg's group found the same mutation, a mutation previously seen only in an individual from northern Europe, and nowhere else in Melanesia, or for that matter anywhere else in the world... Adam Eyre-Walker, Noel Smith and John Maynard Smith from the University of Sussex, Brighton, UK confirm this view with a mathematical analysis of the occurrence of the so-called 'homoplasies' that appear in human mitochondrial DNA... reanalysis of a selection of European and African mitochondrial DNA sequences by the Sussex researchers suggests that recombination is a far more likely cause of the homoplasies, as they find no evidence that these sites are particularly variable over all lineages.
Is Eve older than we thought?
by Sanjida O'Connell 15th April 1999
"Two studies prove that the estimation of both when and where humanity first arose could be seriously flawed... The ruler scientists have been using is based on genetic changes in mitochondria, simple bacteria that live inside us and control the energy requirements of our cells. Mitochondria are passed from mother to daughter and their genes mutate at a set rate which can be estimated - so many mutations per 1,000 years... However, these calculations are based upon a major assumption which, according to Prof John Maynard Smith, from Sussex University, is 'simply wrong'. The idea that underpins this dating technique is that mitochondria, like some kinds of bacteria, do not have sex... Two groups of researchers, Prof Maynard Smith and colleagues Adam Eyre-Walker and Noel Smith, also from Sussex, and Dr Erika Hagelberg and colleagues from the University of Otago, New Zealand, have found that mitochondria do indeed have sex - which means that genes from both males and females is mixed and the DNA in their offspring is very different... Prof Maynard Smith and his colleagues stumbled over mitochondria having sex in the process of tracking the spread of bacterial resistance to meningitis... For the 'out-of-Africa' theory to hold water, the first population would have to have been very small. Sexually rampant mitochondria may put paid to this idea. Maynard Smith thinks that the origin of humanity is much older - may be twice as old - which, according to Eyre-Walker, means we are likely to have evolved in many different areas of the world and did not descend from Eve in Africa."

50 posted on 11/30/2004 9:02:16 AM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: blam

I'm a former pro--MA and 10 years of fieldwork, but all here in the US. I find this Euro stuff more interesting as a hobby like you, though I think you have a lot more energy devoted to it. I've just read a few books on the Celts and know my Iberian history pretty well.

Now that I am a code monkey, I find myself having less time to research all these interesting tidbits. *sigh* Living in an apartment makes it tough to practice my flintknapping skills too.


51 posted on 11/30/2004 9:02:38 AM PST by Betis70 (I'm only Left Wing when I play hockey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
I find this to be fascinating. I think I missed my true calling....studying genetics, tracing DNA, etc. It is really a study of human history.

I have traced my own ancestry back to the mid-1600's due to the strict church records kept by the Lutheran Church in Sweden. It is not as accurate as the study of DNA, but fascinating, nonetheless, to peek back at historical records that list names, titles, job descriptions, offspring, and sometimes a short narrative about the lives of ancestors.

English history is so interesting. About 15-20 years ago there was a program on TV called the "Story of English." It was a series of programs that studied the different cultures that have influenced this small island country over time. The program also explained that the English language is so rich because of the different languages that have been introduced throughout English history. Due to England's seafaring abilities and the strive to colonize, the English language was spread around the world. It is now the language of choice in the economic and social world, due mainly because of the language spoken in the country that started out as a group of English colonies....the United States.
52 posted on 11/30/2004 9:08:47 AM PST by Swede Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy

>>I'd love to get my Y chromosomes tested

I know this is an oldish article (resurrected recently) but there are testing services that do this very thing. They will also take a look see at your mtDNA to look at your mother's side as well. Of course all this genetic evidence loses a lot the further back you go--you can not see any influence from your paternal grandmother or your maternal grandfather for instance.

http://genealogy.about.com/cs/geneticgenealogy/a/dna_tests.htm


53 posted on 11/30/2004 9:10:22 AM PST by Betis70 (I'm only Left Wing when I play hockey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Swede Girl

>>I have traced my own ancestry back to the mid-1600's due to the strict church records kept by the Lutheran Church in Sweden. It is not as accurate as the study of DNA

Probably more accurate in some ways because of the limitations of genetic studies. They only follow the outer branches of your family tree, while your document research filled in all the detail in the middle. A combo of the two would be great fun.

Wow till the mid-1600s, that is impressive. I think my very limited research goes back 4 generations at most. Sadly on my mom's side we have very little information as she was orphaned at a very early age.


54 posted on 11/30/2004 9:13:35 AM PST by Betis70 (I'm only Left Wing when I play hockey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Betis70

It has been a lot of fun...time-consuming, but fun. Sweden is probably the easiest country to trace records in. The church records were very strict since the reformation and everyone had to report everything that went on in the family to the church for census keeping. It was the state law and you were punished if you did not.

This has been a boon to genealogists today and a lot of Swedes have their family history going back to the 1600's right at their finger-tips. A few lucky families have been able to trace back to the 1400's if their own families kept the records and handed them down. This is especially true if families stayed in the immediate area for all of this time.

I am sure that most of the information is accurate as everything was so strictly managed. It would be interesting to couple the findings with DNA studies. I have found dozens of distant cousins through my searches. They are always interested in learning about a branch of the family tree that emigrated to America.


55 posted on 11/30/2004 10:25:33 AM PST by Swede Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times

Thanks for the ping. Interesting link between the Celts and the Basques. Most Anglo-Saxon descendants should be in East Anglia, not Ireland or Scotland or the south or west of England. Maybe y-DNA testing will eventually find the difference between Angles and Saxons, instead of lumping them together.


56 posted on 11/30/2004 2:29:17 PM PST by zot (GWB -- four more years!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: blam; BJB
Re; the Tuatha de Danaan being somehow related to the tribe of Dan -- we must beware of jumping to conclusions just because the name of one group when translated into our language sounds similar to the name of another group when translated into our language. Even the pronounciation of the two words is different -- a sharp "a" sound in Dan and a long drawn "aaa" in Daaanan.

The Celts are too old to be descended from the tribes of Israel -- too old and too different (linguistically, ethnically, physically, culturally, religiously etc)

The problem with the entire 'lost tribes' thing is that we mix Biblical prophecy with hard nosed facts. It's ok if we take one or the other, but most proponents of the lost tribes theory jump between the two in a most confusing manner like oh, it doesn't work out in that so let's use that.

With regards to Fomorians being a Black race, I'd say "there's no such thing as a black race" -- there were speculations that the picts (pictarii or painted ones) were not "white" either, but these again are speculations

These groups COULD have been a darker skinned people, but I would doubt they were Negroid. Why? Because some amount of their genes would have survived and you would have had the Irish or Scots with some Negroid features (maybe not dark skin but perhaps broader noses?). Could they have been brown skinned people from North Africa/the Middle East? Possibly.

57 posted on 11/30/2004 7:30:53 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy

How does this explain Prince Charles' elephant genes?


58 posted on 11/30/2004 7:32:38 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Swede Girl; Lutonian
QUite interesting -- the story of England -- a land which has been touched by Neolithic peoples, Celts, Phoenicians, Romans, Picts (dunno if they could be classified as Celts, jury's still out on that), Saxons, Frisians, Angles, Jutes, Danes, Normans, French, Jews and now Poles, Indians etc.

The acceptance of diversity is really what made the country great -- a let's use all of this to build a strong nation without being a homogenous state.
59 posted on 11/30/2004 7:34:59 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: cyborg

Was that an African elephant or an Asian elephant? The Brits were in India for a while, eh?


60 posted on 11/30/2004 7:36:39 PM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-73 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson