Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Lion man takes pride of place as oldest statue: 30,000-year-old carving
Nature ^ | 4 September 2003 | REX DALTON

Posted on 09/05/2003 2:50:57 AM PDT by gd124

Lion man takes pride of place as oldest statue 30,000-year-old carving might be work of Neanderthals or modern humans.

Intricate ivory carvings said to be the oldest known examples of figurative art have been uncovered in a cave in southwestern Germany. Researchers say that the finding could change our understanding of early man's imaginative endeavours.

The artefacts - including a figurine depicting a Lowenmensch ('lion man') - have been carbon-dated to around 30,000 years ago, when some of the earliest known relatives of modern humans populated Europe.

Discovered last year by a team led by US archaeologist Nicholas Conard of the University of Tübingen in Germany, at the Hohle Fels cave near Ulm, the objects include figures depicting a horse and a bird.

Conard says he thinks that the figures are older than a previously discovered Lowenmensch, fragments of which were found by German archaeologists in 1939 near Vogelherd and dated to about the same time. Until now, those artefacts were accepted as the oldest examples of figurative art in the world. The newly discovered objects are older, Conard argues, as they were uncovered at a lower level in the cave floor's sediments.

"These discoveries have incredible significance," says Clive Gamble, an archaeologist at the University of Southampton, UK. "They depict the animal world in a semi-realistic way. It shows early man moving from his immediate world to an imaginative world."

Conard reported the discovery on 30 July at the Sixteenth Congress of the International Quaternary Association in Reno, Nevada, during a lecture on the human colonization of Europe. He is now preparing a manuscript on the discovery for publication.

Conard, who has studied human migration from Africa at dig sites stretching from Syria to Germany, believes that humans first arrived in central Europe by following the River Danube west into the area. The figurines add a new dimension to theories about the Danube route, agrees Gamble. "During the Ice Age in Europe, the frozen Danube would be like a highway," he says, "providing a fast track to new environments."

Fossil remains suggest that modern humans and Neanderthals both lived in Europe during this period. Conard reported that the sedimentary levels in which the ivory carvings were embedded did not include any Neanderthal fossils. But some archaeologists argue that it is possible that the much-maligned Neanderthals produced similar objects. "I don't think that is as far-fetched as some people might think," says Jeffrey Brantingham, an archaeologist at the University of California, Los Angeles. "These objects are pushing the markers and traits" of modern man "further back into time", he says.

Archaeologists have pointed out that beads, bone points and pendants have already been discovered in association with Neanderthal fossils. Attributing artefacts to one of the two hominid groups remains difficult, says Brantingham. Gamble says that the discovery will spur fresh exploration of France, Spain and South Africa, where even older cave drawings - but not figurative art of this age - have been identified.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Germany; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ancient; archaeology; cavelions; economic; germany; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; lionman; lowenmench; lowenmensch; paleontology; pantheraspelaea; statue

This German lion man might be about to become the second oldest sculpture.

I wish they put up a picture of the new one.

1 posted on 09/05/2003 2:50:57 AM PDT by gd124
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: gd124
Carbon dating is a joke, and they know it. These evolutionists have got everything figured out. They speak of Neanderthal as if he were different from modern man, which given the variations of the human race, is ridiculous. I've seen plenty if caveman looking people in my life. Add to that the presuppositionalism and outright fabrication these "scientists" engage in, and I judge this to be a non story. Cool art, but 30000 years old? I doubt it. Think about it: if humans were producing art that long ago, don't you think we would have spread out across the galaxy by now?
2 posted on 09/05/2003 3:40:39 AM PDT by CalvaryJohn (What is keeping that damned asteroid?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gd124
Wow, I didn't realize fuzzies had been around for 30,000 years.
3 posted on 09/05/2003 4:21:43 AM PDT by yhwhsman ("Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small..." -Sir Winston Churchill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam
Archaeology ping
4 posted on 09/05/2003 4:47:05 AM PDT by petuniasevan (I am Tweety of Borg. Awww, the poor puddy tat got all assimiwated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: yhwhsman
What's a fuzzy?
5 posted on 09/05/2003 6:55:26 AM PDT by gd124
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: gd124
Has Lionman met the Lion Lady?


6 posted on 09/05/2003 7:01:21 AM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: petuniasevan; farmfriend
"Archaeology ping

Thanks, good find. Non-GGG.

7 posted on 09/05/2003 7:35:03 AM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: gd124; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; bd476; carenot; CatoRenasci; ckilmer; concentric circles; ...
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

8 posted on 09/05/2003 8:01:04 AM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam
I really should read your posts before I do the pinging. Hahahah.
9 posted on 09/05/2003 8:01:46 AM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
Please add me to the ping list
10 posted on 09/05/2003 8:18:01 AM PDT by gd124
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: gd124
Consider yourself added. Thanks.
11 posted on 09/05/2003 8:39:32 AM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: CalvaryJohn
don't you think we would have spread out across the galaxy by now?

Ummm. I'm not sure what to make of that statement. We can't spread ourselves out across the galaxy now even with our technology. Being able to sculpt a lion does not equate to suddenly developing interstellar travel.

Carbon dating is a joke, and they know it.

How so?

12 posted on 09/05/2003 11:00:39 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Prodigal Son
The problem with C12 dating is that it changes with solar and volcanic disturbances, it has to be adjusted, I think the dates are on the short side, others think differently. See Blam for details.
13 posted on 09/05/2003 11:51:59 AM PDT by Little Bill (No Rats, A.N.S.W.E.R (WWP) is a commie front!!!!,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: gd124
Fuzzies are people that really like animals to the point that they like to imagine they are one. You see them a lot at gaming conventions, they're usually dressed up like an animal. A lot of their art looks like 'human-appearing' animals.
14 posted on 09/05/2003 9:02:14 PM PDT by yhwhsman ("Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small..." -Sir Winston Churchill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Sloth
ref your #6 post...she paid big bucks to look like that... the rich are very different than you and me!
15 posted on 09/06/2003 9:09:40 AM PDT by ruoflaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: gd124
Das scrimshaw.
16 posted on 09/06/2003 9:12:52 AM PDT by Consort
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

17 posted on 02/26/2006 8:59:33 PM PST by SunkenCiv (My Sunday Feeling is that Nothing is easy. Goes for the rest of the week too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

World’s Oldest Art Uncovered in Germany
Deutsche Welle | 19.12.2003
Posted on 12/20/2003 10:06:34 AM PST by Lessismore
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1044082/posts


18 posted on 03/01/2009 1:25:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


19 posted on 03/01/2009 1:25:25 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Not a joke:

20 posted on 03/31/2016 5:13:56 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson