Posted on 08/11/2009 12:05:41 AM PDT by Making_Sense [Rob W. Case]
Prophecy is a fascinating, compelling, and ever-so interesting field of study. It is history written in advance. When you get into it, and I mean really into it, you can see God’s will for the world and see his plan unfold in it. Understanding Bible Prophecy serves these functions.
1. It proves the validity of the promises of God. 2. It reminds us that God is in control. 3. It serves as an instrument for measuring the moral and immoral state of humanity. 4. It serves as a tool to prepare us for the Lord’s return, so that we will be ready both spiritually and morally when we meet him face to face. 5. We will reach a point when we all know that all we did after receiving Christ as our savior, telling others, and bringing up the hope that was in us was worth it.
(Excerpt) Read more at makingsense.proboards.com ...
To watch the YouTube version of this article, here it is, divided into three segments.
Segment 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTckTgSlEvw&feature=channel
Segment 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EONJFXQnDoE
Segment 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkWMdWn9h-o
Enjoy!!!
Thanks for the post.
Thank you so much for the encouragement GOP Poet. I am a deep researcher, and staunch advocate for truth, and amidst this, there is a sense that things especially relating to prophecy are coming to a head. I believe that our actions determine God’s next move. I see it vitally important to do all of this for the Kingdom, and more is on the way. Thanks again.
Yes. All of what you have said about yourself shows. You are also very clear, engaging, and precise in your writing. I look forward to watching the videos and reading more on your site. It is vital and I so appreciate your reminder and sharing your research. It is easy to get skewed off course.
Bible prophecy is good for as long as you know how to interpret the Bible. 99% of Protestant interpretation of the Bible is plain rubbish!
There is no biblical evidence that the modern secular state of Israel is the fulfillment of prophejcy. All the prophecies speak of restoration of the faithful remnant. Amos 9 that was quoted is a perfect example.
11 "On that day I will raise up The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, And repair its damages; I will raise up its ruins, And rebuild it as in the days of old; 12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, And all the Gentiles who are called by My name," Says the Lord who does this thing.In Acts 15 James quotes this passage as evidence that the promise of God to include the gentiles within the covenant community was being fulfilled. The evidence was faith. By quoting Amos in the context of gentiles coming to faith in Christ in the 1st century James makes it clear that these are not fleshly promises being fulfilled, but spiritual. The unbelieving Jews were looking to the flesh. "But the just shall live by faith."
But modern Israel is in unbelief. They hate the Son of God and deny the covenant in His blood. Israel cannot in any way fulfill prophecy, except to show how the remnant is being saved, by faith in Christ. The true offspring of Abraham are the remnant who have experienced spiritual circumcision.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3)
“I am a deep researcher, and staunch advocate for truth, and amidst this, there is a sense that things especially relating to prophecy are coming to a head.”
“As long as the nation of Israel exists, God once again proves to the world that he exists, and that His will, will prevail.”
So, are you saying that if the modern, secular state of Israel disappeared tomorrow in a blaze of Islamic thermonuclear glory, that would be proof that God does not exist or that His will does not prevail?
How does you claim compare to the truth?
No biblical evidence that the modern secular state of Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy? It most certainly is the fulfillment of prophecy. Amos 9 just doesn’t cover the remnant, but covers Israel’s destruction, and restoration with the return of the Jews who were in exile. There was a man who goes to my church who argues that the Jews have no right to the nation of Israel. His logic rests on the idea that the Jews broke their covenant with God. I disagree. God is not going to break a promise, which to him is like a covenant, if they are going to fall away. That is incorrect.
Also consider…. From a purely scientific standpoint, there is no logical reason whatsoever to explain why the Jewish people exist today. None whatsoever! Satan most definitely knew the promise that the Jews were supposed to return to their land in the last days. So, he did everything in his power to try and stop that from happening, the most intense being his campaign to exterminate the Jews via the horrid political campaign that led to the holocaust. Against all odds, the Jews returned supernaturally to their land in 1948. This is the most interesting thing. The Jewish people did not just connect with each other somehow from around the world to make it happen. They were, as the Bible says, “planted” by God to return to Israel, which was nothing more than a desert at that time. Why would they come from being scattered among the nations to a desert if something wasn’t in the works? How is it not in perfect alignment with the parable of the fig tree spoken by Jesus which communicates the idea that the desert will bloom? That has happened. That has happened both spiritually, physically, and politically. Take for example, trade. Not only has the nation of Israel made the desert bloom, but they are also recognized by the international community as a source for farming and trading food. At my domestic job (I work in produce), we had red peppers come in that said “Made in Israel.” I also have COOL (Country of Origin Labeling) stickers, one of which I took and stuck within the mini- notebook I carry everywhere (for the purpose of taking notes) to serve as a reminder that prophecy is being fulfilled and that God’s will, will prevail.
Also consider….
Isaiah 66:8 (New International Version)
8 Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.
May 14th, 1948, the United Nations recognized Israel as a nation as also President Truman in the United States. The state of Israel was born in a day.
In the future, I hope to put together a post called Israel & Prophecy because everything rests on the nation of Israel. The covenant that is made between ISRAEL and the Antichrist is what will trigger the event known as the rapture.
Even though the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah, the story isn’t over regarding them. They will find out the hard way. They will go through a process in which the one they were tricked into thinking was their messiah (the anti-Christ) is out to kill them, and when Christ returns, they will see first hand, the one whom they rejected. Zechariah 12:10 speaks more of this.
As for Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3)
That is when one accept Christ and has the Holy Spirit within them. When Christ is in your heart, then all are one in the spirit, there are no physical divisions. Physical divisions are a product of the world, pure and simple.
I want to be careful saying this, but I think that Orthodox Jews are a bit behind in understanding the bigger picture relating to Israel and God’s promises within it. They still are bent on old traditions, even though Christ freed them from the burdens. As born-again believers we have a stake in the New Jerusalem chronicled in Revelation. But there are some things yet to be done in the Old Jerusalem. Israel’s coming back into existence was destined to occur at the time it did to let loose the moral conditions that would seep into the political environment, and in turn work to annihilate Israel once and for all.
I’m saying that there is no reason to believe that Israel will disappear in a blaze of Islamic thermonuclear glory because He will keep his promise and protect them from allowing it to happen.
Jeremiah 31:35-36
35 This is what the LORD says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the LORD Almighty is his name:
36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
declares the LORD,
“will the descendants of Israel ever cease
to be a nation before me.”
To summarize this, “As long as the sun shines and the moon gives her light, Israel will continue being a nation before God forever. There is nothing more that hints at the Jews being exiled a second time, or Israel being destroyed again, or Jerusalem being destroyed. It’s existence is just another proof that God exists. Against all odds, against all of the political pressure, Israel should have been wiped out decades, if not centuries ago.
If man can prevent, or try to ruin a promise made by God, then he tries to make God out to be a liar. Satan is behind this. Satan wants people to doubt God, and one way to place doubt in him is to move man to come up with a mistake, or something wrong to make the faith seem imperfect, and just as mediocre as the other ones that have been proven to be imperfect. Christ stands out above all other faiths. He rose from the grave. He is perfect, and He revealed to the prophets in he past the details which would lead to a specific, prophetic conclusion, some of which already happened, and some of which are about to soon happen.
But where is the unquestionable biblical evidence that the modern secular nation of Israel is that fulfillment of prophecy? From the standpoint of "making sense" there is none. One must first adopt certain presuppositions about "Israel" in order to follow your conclusions.
I will offer two reasons here for the defects in your claims and elaborate on them in another post:. 1) the "nation of Israel" as defined in Bible in no measurable way matches the modern secular state of Israel, 2) it ignores all that the NT teaches about God's holy nation.
This is one of those bogus claims common among futurists that does not hold up to biblical or historical scrutiny. The modern secular state of Israel was not literally "born in a day" as the Bible would use the phrase. Modern Israel was born out of pure human will over the course of many decades, beginning as early as the Balfor Declaration. The political nations of the world birthed Israel. To quote the Isaiah 66 or other parts of the Bible in a simplistic fashion and apply it to current events makes no sense except to those who have already bought into the system.
This is one of those futurist claims that makes superficial sense, but cannot stand careful examination from God's Word.
So, what happened to God's "promise to protect Israel" between 70AD and 1948AD?
bttt
You said.....
But where is the unquestionable biblical evidence that the modern secular nation of Israel is that fulfillment of prophecy? From the standpoint of “making sense” there is none.
Hmm... I think to come up with the idea that the modern state of Israel is not a fulfillment of Bible prophecy, there are some things that would have to be completely ignored, like....
Israel’s warning given by God that they were going to be scattered among the nations. (Ezekiel 6:8, 36:17-19)
That happened historically as I stated in my piece. But Ezekiel goes on to say....
Ezekiel 36:24
24 “ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.
That happened May 14th, 1948. A nation is born when it is sovereign. Even if it was a work in progress for years, it doesn’t matter; the end result does. They were never a nation since the Babylonians took over, and they did not have control over Jerusalem since Titus and his Roman Generals destroyed it in A.D. 70. But not only were they not in control of their own land, they endured hardships unlike any other people, which matches precisely what Ezekiel said in...
Ezekiel 36:20-21
20 And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, ‘These are the LORD’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ 21 I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.
But aside from what I just stated, Jesus Christ himself implied Israel. When the disciples asked Him when would be the sign of his return, he talked about the fig tree. The fig tree he mentioned was OT code for Israel. There are too many matches. If there weren’t, he would have had to explain it. As people who knew the scriptures, they were supposed to have known.
You also have to understand that practicing Jews are still within an Old Testament mentality. Regardless of whether or not they are, when God makes a promise, he makes sure it’s lasting. The nation of Israel is, as you said, a secular nation, but one of the mysteries of Bible prophecy is that it will not remain a secular state forever. The heat is mounting up against it. From a nation that was once very Israel friendly, that is diminishing. Many Americans would rather have Israel fall off the face of the earth. It does show that God is in control and that just by their being alive, shows that God preserved them.
Israel coming back into their land is one of the most amazing things on the face of this earth. Since they came back, they have discovered many archaeological artifacts, remnants, as well as ancient manuscripts from the ancient Biblical era.
That is no accident. Also, when you consider the alignment of world events in light of Israel’s rebirth, that right there was a red flag as well.
When God says something, he says it in a broad, big picture perspective. When you look at the past details which spanned for thousands of years, and put them together now, then you can see the pieces begin to come together. Since a thousand years is like a day to the Lord (2 Peter 3:8), it is easy for us to say that this didn’t happen, or this won’t happen.
To illustrate my point, take Ezekiel 36:24-26
24 “ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
In the span of three verses it says what it says. But only verse 24 has been fulfilled, and verses 25-26 are yet to be fulfilled. God has a broad, big picture mentality when he revealed future events to the prophets in the past.
From A.D. 70 to 1948, God simply punished Israel, scattered the Jews among the nations, and the nations not wanting them, let them know they weren’t wanted. When God said enough is enough, he planted them back into their own land.
Now, God promised them their own land. He warned them that they would lose it if they kept doing the things that upset him, but promised them that he would plant them back into their land from among the nations and protect them. Just as the sun shines in the sky and the moon gives her light, the nation of Israel will remain where she’s at until the Lord comes. When Christ first came, he came to save us from our sins by offering Himself as a sacrifice. When he comes again, he will come in authority and have a political Kingdom for which he will rule the nations.
Micah 4:7
Isaiah 24:23
Psalm 2:9, mentioned again in Revelation 2:27 to fulfill prophecy.
All evidence is questionable as you have shown. Still, it is good that the debate continues because the future of Israel will be a tie breaker on this issue. Keep watching.
I will offer two reasons here for the defects in your claims and elaborate on them in another post:. 1) the "nation of Israel" as defined in Bible in no measurable way matches the modern secular state of Israel, 2) it ignores all that the NT teaches about God's holy nation.
The NT teaches that blindness in part happens to Israel. This may mean that Israel cannot see Christ until the fullness of the gentiles comes. This is demonstrated by modern day Israel; evidence that it is the same Israel spoken of in Romans 11.
Except that the modern secular state of Israel does not meet the biblical qualifications. It is a nation of unbelief that denies the covenant of God made with Abraham. It is the remnant that is being saved. God brings faith then physical restoration … the result of true repentance. Modern Israel exhibits none of that. Those who take 1948 as something other than a historical date are deluded in their view. It has no biblical support.
So taking your interpretation at it's word, I have three questions:
1) What did Israel do just prior to 70AD that was so bad that God would scatter them for nearly two millennia....
2) What did Israel start doing differently just prior to 1948AD, that God should bring them back into the land and promise never to scatter them again?
Consider that 80% of Israel's population is Jewish, two-thirds of those are native-born, and less than 25% consider themselves religious or Orthodox in beliefs. Only 40% of the world's current Jewish population live inside Israel. Roughly the same number of Jews live in the United States, as live in Israel.
3) Why did God choose to leave so many Jews scattered in the world, even after reestablishing their homeland? What was special about the first half a million or so religious Jews (who were among those first "new Israelites" in 1948), that God relocated them to Israel to never lose their homeland - while God left all others to rot outside her borders?
I believe that Israel must remain in unbelief for now, in order the meet biblical qualifications.
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