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Ancient Romans In Texas?
Science Frontiers online ^ | Nov-Dec 1993 | William Corliss

Posted on 04/14/2002 6:23:47 AM PDT by Hellmouth

ANCIENT ROMANS IN TEXAS?

If one searches long enough and hard enough, one can discover hints that just about any ancient culture you care to name set foot in the New World well before the Vikings and Columbus. Old coins, inscriptions, language concordances, and the like are taken by many as proofs that Egyptians visited Oklahoma, the Chinese moored along the Pacific coast, the Celts toured New England, and so on. Now, according to Professor V. Belfiglio, the ancient Romans had Texas on their itineraries.

Belfiglio's evidence is fourfold, and so are mainstream criticisms:

(Lee, Victoria; "Professor Explores Theory of Romans' Ancient Voyage," Dallas Morning News, June 13, 1993. Cr. T. Adams via L. Farish.)


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; US: Texas; Unclassified; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: ancientnavigation; archaeology; archeology; celts; diffusion; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; heyerdahl; history; mysteries; precolumbian; romanempire; romans; texas; vikings
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1 posted on 04/14/2002 6:23:47 AM PDT by Hellmouth
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To: Carlo3b
**FYI**
2 posted on 04/14/2002 6:29:07 AM PDT by TwoStep
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To: Hellmouth
My response to these sorts of things is to file them away. Unlikely, but few things are absolutely impossible. If they turn up a Roman bath in downtown Galveston while digging a foundation, that would add a bit more weight to the theory.
3 posted on 04/14/2002 6:30:16 AM PDT by Cicero
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To: Hellmouth
Madoc Rules!
4 posted on 04/14/2002 6:32:28 AM PDT by Cowman
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To: Hellmouth
We'll probably never know of the explorers/adventurers that made one way trips, the ones that didn't return triumphantly like Columbus.

I'm told of volunteers that try to match gravestones in western America with families in Europe. Here lies Ollie Olufson, died in a mine shaft explosion 1879, no known relatives and the Olufson family back in Scandinavia never heard what happened to young Ollie who went west to seek a better life.

I think there is a business opportunity there, but darned if I'll go after that one.

Olufson might be do-able, but Romans in Texas? That's tough.

5 posted on 04/14/2002 6:36:37 AM PDT by AzJP
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To: Hellmouth
.....but did they wear boots and belt buckles the size of dinner plates?
6 posted on 04/14/2002 6:38:44 AM PDT by RightOnline
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To: RightOnline
~Ahem~...L~
7 posted on 04/14/2002 6:42:46 AM PDT by Bad~Rodeo
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To: Cowman
"Madoc Rules!"

We have a plaque here at the mouth of Mobile Bay that commerates Madoc's arrival here in 1170AD.

8 posted on 04/14/2002 6:42:50 AM PDT by blam
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To: Cowman
The Legend Of Prince Madoc And The White Indians
9 posted on 04/14/2002 6:47:29 AM PDT by blam
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To: Cowman
Madoc Rules!

The best revenge is living Welsh?

10 posted on 04/14/2002 6:50:55 AM PDT by Grut
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To: Hellmouth
The Zuni Enigma

Did a group of thirteenth-century Japanese journey to the American Southwest, there to merge with the people, language, and religion of the Zuni tribe?

For many years, anthropologists have understood the Zuni in the American Southwest to occupy a special place in Native American culture and ethnography. Their language, religion, and blood type are startlingly different from all other tribes. Most puzzling, the Zuni appear to have much in common with the people of Japan.

In a book with groundbreaking implications, Dr. Nancy Yaw Davis examines the evidence underscoring the Zuni enigma, and suggests the circumstances that may have led Japanese on a religious quest-searching for the legendary "middle world" of Buddhism-across the Pacific and to the American Southwest more than seven hundred years ago.

Nancy Yaw Davis holds an M.A. from the University of Chicago and a Ph.D. in anthropology from the University of Washington. Author of numerous articles, she has long researched the history and cultures of the native peoples of North America. Her company, Cultural Dynamics, is located in Anchorage, Alaska, where she lives.

( I read this book. She presents a very convincing story.)

11 posted on 04/14/2002 6:52:00 AM PDT by blam
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To: AzJP, Two Step
"........but Romans in Texas? That's tough.".......

...a...er.......cough,  DUH!
 
 
 
 

By Carlo3b.....Houston Texas
 
 
 
 

12 posted on 04/14/2002 6:54:59 AM PDT by carlo3b
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Hellmouth
All hat and no cataloni.
14 posted on 04/14/2002 6:57:23 AM PDT by DainBramage
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To: Hellmouth
Well, the trade winds did blow 2000 years ago.
15 posted on 04/14/2002 6:58:35 AM PDT by R. Scott
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To: Hellmouth
An Ancient North African Treasure Trove In Southern Illinois
16 posted on 04/14/2002 7:03:36 AM PDT by blam
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To: Hellmouth
"Bat Creek" Bump.
17 posted on 04/14/2002 7:05:51 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: Hellmouth
I think this has been done before. Didn't Clive Cussler have this in one of the Dirk Pitt novels?
18 posted on 04/14/2002 7:11:20 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: Cicero
Doe's this mean the Italians get to start opening Casinos in Texas?
19 posted on 04/14/2002 7:57:08 AM PDT by willyone
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To: blam
lol-glad I read all the way through the thread before pinging you. I was pretty sure you'd seen this-first I've heard of it. Pretty cool.
20 posted on 04/14/2002 7:57:53 AM PDT by sawsalimb
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To: Cicero
I'm personally of the opinion that certain ancient peoples like the Viking, Celt and Roman traveled over a much larger range of the world than what is usually credited to them. When one considers how knowlege like iron working was cloistered and treated like a "trade secret" for centuries by the Scythians, it doesn't take much of a leap of logic to consider that certain families or tribes might have obtained and then concealed knowlege of distant, unknown lands, and the ways to get there and back.

I would not be at all surprised to find that Romans had once landed on American shores, either by accident or intent, nor would I be surprised to find that they had founded short-lived colonies here.

21 posted on 04/14/2002 8:05:57 AM PDT by Billy_bob_bob
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To: RightOnline
Of course they did! A proud tradition carried on today by their descendants in the W.W.F.
22 posted on 04/14/2002 8:10:56 AM PDT by uglybiker
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To: Cicero
If they turn up a Roman bath in downtown Galveston while digging a foundation...

I wouldn't put too much creedence in that, either. Last I heard, America's biggest gay community was in Houston.

23 posted on 04/14/2002 8:12:34 AM PDT by uglybiker
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To: sawsalimb
This is somewhat easy to explain. A Roman vessel likely got blown off course from the Spanish coast. It drifted for days and the crew died along the way, and weeks later, it beached on the Texas coast. The local Indians probably found the coins and considered them lucky objects.
24 posted on 04/14/2002 8:14:44 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Billy_bob_bob
It wouldn't surprise me either. My question,in this instance,is,"What in the world did they come to the Gulf Coast for?" Nothing that's easily available on the gulf coast of Texas comes to mind as being worth the time,effort,and hazard of a long voyage in an open boat. The furs aren't of any exceptional quality,I don't think they were planning on drilling oil wells,and there aren't any particularly valuable minerals there,that I know of.

This,at least to my way of thinking,would argue for an accidental landing-possibly a good sized ship.

25 posted on 04/14/2002 8:21:16 AM PDT by sawsalimb
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To: pepsionice
As plausible an explanation as any other.
26 posted on 04/14/2002 8:23:51 AM PDT by sawsalimb
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To: Hellmouth ; Orual ; dighton
Et tu, Bubba?
27 posted on 04/14/2002 8:24:02 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: sawsalimb
De Soto didn't fare too well in Texas either.
28 posted on 04/14/2002 8:37:44 AM PDT by csvset
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To: DainBramage
All hat and no cataloni.

Excellent.

29 posted on 04/14/2002 8:38:14 AM PDT by Random Access
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To: RightOnline
belt buckles the size of dinner plates

That was a shield polished to reflect light and blind the adversary. Or it could be a train headlight.

30 posted on 04/14/2002 8:58:57 AM PDT by Ranger
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To: sawsalimb;pepsionice
I think accidental landing is probably the most plausible explanation also. There was a sunken Roman galley discovered off the coast of Brazil some years ago, so there's certainly precedent for such a thing. What seems unlikely is that there was any regular, culturally significant contact between the Old and New worlds in ancient times, the claims of the Afrocentrists notwithstanding.
31 posted on 04/14/2002 9:17:35 AM PDT by general_re
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To: Hellmouth
Your story is almost ten years old. This makes it more likely that Ancient Romans were in Texas, since it's less likely that the Ancient Indians could have gotten the coins over the Internet.
32 posted on 04/14/2002 9:18:37 AM PDT by x
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To: Hellmouth
Rome, Naples, Venice, and ALpine are in Texas. What more proof does one need?
33 posted on 04/14/2002 9:45:27 AM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: Hellmouth
Ancient Egyptians in OK?

I AM a descendant of Rameses the Great!

somehow I've always known.

34 posted on 04/14/2002 9:49:30 AM PDT by tal hajus
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To: general_re

Meet Luzia. This is a reconstruction from the oldest dated skeleton ever found in the Americas (Brazil), 11,500 years old. (Spirit Cave Woman, found on an island off California, will probably top the 11,500 year old Luzia date.)

35 posted on 04/14/2002 10:10:39 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Spirit Cave Man (My apologies, I have gotten him mixed up with the skeleton found off the California coast. Now, I don't know what her name is.) This guy is believed to have been related to Kennewick Man.

36 posted on 04/14/2002 10:15:40 AM PDT by blam
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To: aculeus
Et tu, Bubba?

< groan>
or maybe "veni, vidi, barbici": " I came, I saw, I barbequed"
:)

37 posted on 04/14/2002 10:16:07 AM PDT by SR71A
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To: sawsalimb
My question,in this instance,is,"What in the world did they come to the Gulf Coast for?" Nothing that's easily available on the gulf coast of Texas comes to mind as being worth the time,effort,and hazard of a long voyage in an open boat.

The very fact that it is "Texas" is sufficient to warrant the "time, effort, and hazard" of travelling across the world.

If the Romans didn't realize this, then they were fools, and it's no wonder their empire collapsed.

38 posted on 04/14/2002 10:17:10 AM PDT by Mulder
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To: Hellmouth
Veni, vidi, sweati.
39 posted on 04/14/2002 10:20:48 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: DugwayDuke
That's right. "Treasure" was about a Roman galley hiding artifacts from the Library of Alexandria in a place later identified as Texas.
41 posted on 04/14/2002 11:20:00 AM PDT by shekkian
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To: sawsalimb
"What in the world did they come to the Gulf Coast for?"

They were is search of a preposition.

42 posted on 04/14/2002 11:49:10 AM PDT by ASA Vet
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To: Mulder
Point,and a very good point.
43 posted on 04/14/2002 1:19:22 PM PDT by sawsalimb
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To: general_re
What seems unlikely is that there was any regular, culturally significant contact between the Old and New worlds in ancient times, the claims of the Afrocentrists notwithstanding.

You don't need to give credence to the Afrocentrists' claims to believe that there was much more contact between the Old and New Worlds before Columbus than is generally known.

The evidence is all around North America: Mystery Hill in New Hampshire, the Newport Tower, the Westford rock etchings, castle ruins in New Ross, Nova Scotia; Prince Henry Sinclair's discovery of Nova Scotia and the Micmac Indians' legends of Glooscap; St. Brendan's Navigatio, the Kensington (MN) stone, the Beardmore (ON) Viking relics; the Melungeons, Chinese descriptions of the Grand Canyon and Arizona deserts; Johannes Scolvuss; etc. etc.

44 posted on 04/14/2002 3:30:41 PM PDT by Loyalist
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To: AzJP
Were Roman the only ones with Roman coins anyway?
45 posted on 04/14/2002 3:35:14 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: blam
I have a few questions. Does anyone else believe it? Also, don't you also believe in Velikovsky's work?
46 posted on 04/14/2002 3:38:54 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: pepsionice
I would call that the most plausible explanation.
47 posted on 04/14/2002 3:41:28 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: Mulder
LOL!!!
48 posted on 04/14/2002 3:44:39 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: willyone
You should get the joke of the day---week on this one.

Doe's this mean the Italians get to start opening Casinos in Texas?

19 posted on 4/14/02 5:57 AM Hawaii-Aleutian by willyone

Why the apostrophe?

49 posted on 04/14/2002 3:54:02 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: stands2reason
" Does anyone else believe it?"

Don't know. I tend to.

" Also, don't you also believe in Velikovsky's work?"

Conceptually, some aspects. Velikovsky tried to hard to explain and connect everything.

50 posted on 04/14/2002 5:41:48 PM PDT by blam
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