Communism and human nature (Bolshie Mod sez, Arise ye kittens of the earth!)

Many argue that communism will never be possible because of "human nature". The essence of this false argument is the belief that a communist society would consist of an all-powerful central government that would tell everybody what to do--and would therefore undermine the creative initiative of individuals and the search for happiness.

(1) It assumes that a communist society will look like the former Soviet Union, or the current China, North Korea, etc (ie: corrupt police states with a feudal-style ruling class) (2) It assumes that people will only work in order to own bigger and bigger piles of commodities.

• The truth is that: (1) There will be no government in communist society--people will do what they want without being pushed around by anyone. The development of a corrupt police state or a new ruling class will be prevented by the struggles of the masses who will be armed with the weapon of transparency. (2) In a world of abundance for all no one will have to struggle (or even work) for the necessities of life (which will be a birthright--just like the air we all breathe). People will work on projects of their own choosing because (a) they find the work fun and interesting; (b) they enjoy the work relationships with talented and dedicated co-workers; (c) they want to make the world a better place; or (d) they want social status and recognition. A world of abundance for all where work is fun (and voluntary) will be made possible by a much higher productivity of human labor.

• An example of communist work relationships is provided by the Linux computer operating system--the core of which was created by many thousands of people--all working for free. A 2nd example is the "work" involved when people post to this forum. No one gets paid to post here--but people do so--because it is an expression of their principles and convictions.

• Who is in control? Under capitalism (and previous economic systems such as feudalism and slavery) only a small fraction of the population has control over their conditions of work--and the life of society as a whole. Only under genuine communism will the masses control their conditions of work--and the culture, economy and politics of society.

"Communes and kibbutzes can work on a small scale because 1) it becomes progressively more difficult to find a common vision and purpose as the size of the community grows, 2) participation in the collective is completely voluntary, and 3) people have the right and ability to leave if the collective no longer shares their goals."

No wonder the kibbutz system is dying in Israel. Most of them have turned capitalist -- for the very reasons above.

Go ahead, sammy sam, go to Cuba, a communist 'paradise'. Spend a month there. A week. Not as some 'guest' of the government, like Sean Penn flying to Iraq to 'visit' troops. No, as the Cubans live, eaking out a living, told where to work, if there is work, where to live, how to live, jailed for independent thought (Oh, maybe there's the problem!). You will be on a raft full of people longing to free themselves from the diseased grip of a failed system and hopeful of reaching the shores of America for a chance at freedom.

Wow... Where to start here?

This loser simply doesn't have any concept of human nature, or the nature of work. Or maybe he's simply bought in to the "Star Trek" line of the future.

He says that communism won't be like the Soviet Union. Or any other implementation of communism, like North Korea, Cuba, China, etc... Sure, let's ignore every historical incident of communism. We've got yet another example of the leftists' mantra, "The right people simply haven't been in charge... Like me!" Isn't doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different outcome each time an example of the definition of insanity?

I especially loved the part about not having to work... Hey Sammy Sam... What are you going to be eating? Are you just going to live off the land? You do know that you need to plant crops to do so, right? Do you know that you'll need a fair amount of crops to support yourself, right? Oh, and are you going to make all the "city folks" move out to the country to grow their own food too? It's been done at least once before you know... Pohl Pot did it in Cambodia.

And your inclusion of Linux in the diatribe you posted shows a complete lack of understanding as to what Linux is all about... It's done mostly by "enthusiasts," who program it for the love of what they do. They're volunteers. They do it in their spare time, because they love it. But what you propose is making people do what you think that they should be doing, and I can guarentee that if you were to make volunteer Linus programmers do the work, the quality and quantity would suffer. And you make them slaves.

Just like communism.

Mark

The only was for communism to work is for everyone to be totally honest, totally dependable, un-selfish and of general good will. In other words, their ain't many humans like that. Maybe if we had a hive-mind like the ants.

I've had a real life minor experience with socialism once, back in college. At the time, I was living in a fraternity house, and the "house parents" said, "look, you've got all 10 people living here, you've got 10 cartons of milk in the refridgerators, you've to 10 loaves of bread, cartons of eggs, 10 sets of condiments, etc... Why not combine resources, and we'll just share. Think about how much money everyone will save, and how we'll be able to have meals together, and life will be good..." Anyway, we all agreed to give it a try, and it lasted exactly two weeks. First off, we weren't saving any money. Secondly, the "house parents" were buying cheap stuff (like house brand ketsup, not the real thing, Heinz), and didn't have anywhere near as much as we expected. We all suspected these "house parents" of pocketing more than a little of the money. There were shortages of pretty much everything, and they would up with a full scale rebellion on their hands. Like I said, it lasted all of two weeks.

I read somewhere here on FR that socialism is simply the equal distribution of misery.

Mark

Don't you know?, The weapon of transparency is that new Utopian weapon. The one where everyone tells the truth, there are no secrets, There is no fear of reprisal for telling the truth, and anything you every wanted to know was posted in an easy, convenient place where everyone who ever wanted it could have easy access to it.

Cool!!! Where do I get one of these "weapons of transparency?" How wonderful, being able to tell the truth, all the time, with no repercussions!

Being able to say to your wife, "Yes, that outfit does make your ass look HUGH," and not have to spend the next week sleeping on the couch!

Mark

Why is it that communists always need to take over the entire government, and force everyone into their scheme?

Because it can only work if everyone buys into their plan completely. If certain people don't want to participate, they "rock the boat." And that simply can't be allowed.

Everyone must be made to volunteer to the cause. Those who don't do so willingly will be compelled to do so, or will be eliminated.

Mark

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