Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Native Americans Recorded Supernova Explosion
New Scientist ^ | 6-5-2006 | Zeeya Merali - Kelly Young

Posted on 06/05/2006 4:27:51 PM PDT by blam

Native Americans recorded supernova explosion

16:45 05 June 2006
NewScientist.com news service
Zeeya Merali and Kelly Young

The Arizonan petroglyph may depict the supernova of 1006 AD - the star symbol is on the right and the constellation Scorpius on the left (Image: John Barentine, Apache Point Observatory)

This double-sun petroglyph at Chaco Canyon National Monument in New Mexico may depict the supernova of 4 July 1054 (Image: Mark Lansing)

There are numerous examples of rock art in the Chaco Canyon National Monument depicting celestial objects (Image: Mark Lansing)

Prehistoric Native Americans may have carved a record of a supernova explosion that appeared in the skies a millennium ago into a rock in Arizona, US.

John Barentine, an astronomer at the Apache Point Observatory in New Mexico, came across the carving while hiking in the White Tank Mountain Regional Park in Arizona.

It depicts a scorpion and an eight-pointed star. "I had just been reading about the supernova of AD 1006 and I knew it appeared in the constellation Scorpius, so the connection flashed into my mind."

To make his case, Barentine and his colleague Gilbert A. Esquerdo, at the Planetary Science Institute, Tucson, used planetarium software to recreate the sky as it would have appeared in Arizona during the supernova's appearance and overlaid it with photographs from the site.

The supernova would have been brighter than a planet, and both it and the constellation - which is shaped like a scorpion - would have appeared just above the edge of the rock, in the same orientation depicted in the carvings. Native Americans populated the region during that period and often recorded objects thought to have magical powers, says Barentine.

"It's by no means conclusive, but I think it's strong circumstantial evidence that the art depicts the supernova," says Barentine. He announced his theory at the American Astronomical Society Meeting in Calgary, in Alberta, Canada, on Monday.

Star watchers

The supernova was recorded by star watchers in Asia, the Middle-East and Europe. But until now, nobody thought that prehistoric Native Americans followed events in the sky. "I don't think enough credit has been given to the ancient Native Americans in the past, but that might change now," Barentine told New Scientist.

If the art does represent the supernova, it would provide a useful date to help work out the age of neighbouring rock carvings, which are difficult to assess by other methods, says Barentine.

But the White Tank Mountain is not the first suspected supernova petroglyph in North America. A petroglyph at Chaco Canyon National Monument in New Mexico may depict the supernova of 4 July 1054.

Another petroglyph at White Tank may also be a recording of the AD 1054 supernova. White Tank Mountain park ranger Mark Lansing says that petroglyph looks like colliding suns and is nestled in a back canyon along with pictures of other celestial objects.

"The AD 1006 petroglyph is a little more abstract," Lansing says of Barentine's find. "I'd seen his petroglyph but not really related it to the sky for 1006. He does show what the sky may have looked like in AD 1006."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americans; archaeoastronomy; catastrophism; explosion; godsgravesglyphs; megaliths; native; recorded; supernova
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-134 next last

1 posted on 06/05/2006 4:27:53 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 06/05/2006 4:29:07 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Has to be the bottom science story of the month. Anyone who didn't see and note a bright new star is two arrows short of a quiver.


3 posted on 06/05/2006 4:30:42 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gcruse

You might just be right.


4 posted on 06/05/2006 4:32:29 PM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: blam
I'm not sure I get it. Are people shocked that supernovas seen in Europe were visible over the American continent too? Or are they just amazed that the American Indians were able to tilt their heads up and, you know, see them?
5 posted on 06/05/2006 4:35:05 PM PDT by Antonello (Oh my God, don't shoot the banana!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Maybe it represnts what frogs look like when you throw them at a rock.


6 posted on 06/05/2006 4:35:52 PM PDT by giobruno
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam
It depicts a scorpion and an eight-pointed star. "I had just been reading about the supernova of AD 1006 and I knew it appeared in the constellation Scorpius, so the connection flashed into my mind."

But how would the American Indians have known the constellation was "Scorpio"?

7 posted on 06/05/2006 4:37:38 PM PDT by thoughtomator (A thread without a comment on immigration is not complete)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Antonello; blam

What I find interesting is the scorpion.

Why should the two continents have the same celestial imagery?


8 posted on 06/05/2006 4:44:33 PM PDT by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: blam

Then again, it just may be a really memorable 4th of July fireworks display.

Perhaps they threw a couple of scorpions on the grill, knocked back some "firewater" and next morning said,"man we had one supernova party last night"! :o)

...yeah, I know. It's a groaner.


9 posted on 06/05/2006 4:46:30 PM PDT by Rhetorical pi2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: giobruno

How does one come to acquire such knowledge anyway?


10 posted on 06/05/2006 4:47:59 PM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Antonello
are they just amazed that the American Indians were able to tilt their heads up and, you know, see them?

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Well duh.
11 posted on 06/05/2006 4:48:32 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: blam

It doesn't say how long the supernova might have been visible. Any idea?


12 posted on 06/05/2006 4:49:00 PM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam
Supernova 1006 AD

"The remnant of this supernova was only rediscovered by radio astronomers in the 1960s."

13 posted on 06/05/2006 4:49:22 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: giobruno

LOL!


14 posted on 06/05/2006 4:52:15 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: giobruno

LOL! Or what spiders look like when Garfield the cat is finished with them.


15 posted on 06/05/2006 4:56:14 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (Dear US Senators, Reps. and Mr. President: Why are y'all abetting the destruction of our culture?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: From many - one.
Why should the two continents have the same celestial imagery?

It wouldn't be the only time.

Ursa Major was known as the Bear to the American Indians as well as Greeks.

16 posted on 06/05/2006 4:56:55 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (In 2002 the bottom 20% did 4.3% of the work, the top 20% did 33.9% of the work.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: From many - one.
Pioneer psychiatrist Dr. Carl Jung came up with his theory of psychic archetypes and the collective unconscious. Under this idea symbology is universal in the human race. This is why myths (the great flood myth for example) is found in various versions all over the world. And symbols like the cross or the swastika are used all over the world by different cultures.
17 posted on 06/05/2006 5:00:58 PM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (Anything a politician gives you he has first stolen from you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Antonello
I'm not sure I get it. Are people shocked that supernovas seen in Europe were visible over the American continent too? Or are they just amazed that the American Indians were able to tilt their heads up and, you know, see them?

Or why Native Americans who lived 1000 years ago are "pre-historic"?

Does the fact the the Euopeans didn't know they existed make them prehistoric?

Why do we continue to discount that they had civilzations, histories, cultures = even observatories, long before we knew there were continents here.

When the white man came, they found cities that surpassed those in Europe - and astronomical observatories, planetary observations, calendars, predictions and a numerical system that surpassed that of the old world.

Even Chaco Canyon was a remarkable community where over 5000 people lived for a few hundred years. They observed the planets, kept track of the solstices, ...

We try to ignore the histories of the Native Americans because we haven't grown up enough yet to admit they were not just a bunch of wild savages whose lands we were meant to take thru' "manifest destiny."

18 posted on 06/05/2006 5:03:37 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Lincoln: "...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: thoughtomator

My question as well.


19 posted on 06/05/2006 5:04:41 PM PDT by BenLurkin ("The entire remedy is with the people." - W. H. Harrison)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: From many - one.
What I find interesting is the scorpion. Why should the two continents have the same celestial imagery?

Probably because Scorpio is one of the few constellations that actually looks like what it's suppose to be.

20 posted on 06/05/2006 5:04:44 PM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: From many - one.
="Why should the two continents have the same celestial imagery?

Maybe because the constellation is shaped like a scorpion, and scorpions were plentiful in the desert???


21 posted on 06/05/2006 5:08:39 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Lincoln: "...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Harmless Teddy Bear

I assume that that was carried here by the Chuckchi (and related) derived immigrants. It was pretty widespread over Eurasia and probably rather old.


22 posted on 06/05/2006 5:09:03 PM PDT by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: blam
nobody thought that prehistoric Native Americans followed events in the sky.

Hmmm.. I always thought 'prehistoric Native Americans' observed the sky closely. I've read many stories about pics on their stones that resemble astronaut, star ships, etc...

23 posted on 06/05/2006 5:10:49 PM PDT by paudio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brad from Tennessee

Never bought that one for a minute, even in my younger, more naive days.

And I've seen plenty of indications that the swasticka's distribution was also hand carried.


24 posted on 06/05/2006 5:11:34 PM PDT by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: kinoxi
How does one come to acquire such knowledge anyway?

Observation over centuries - and the Native Americans lived WITH nature,not against it. They didn't punch a time clock, other that Mother Nature's and thus had time to observe and figure out that when something happened in the same way, in certain patterns, over and over - they could build on what they learned...

25 posted on 06/05/2006 5:12:14 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Lincoln: "...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: gcruse
But until now, nobody thought that prehistoric Native Americans followed events in the sky...

Writers shouldn't publish all the things that go through their minds. This idea ignores the Native American names of constellations, legends about comet and meteorites and eclipses, etc.
26 posted on 06/05/2006 5:13:07 PM PDT by carumba (The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. Groucho)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: qam1

I'll have to check, but there are similarities in the name also.

And it doesn't look like a scorpion to me, it looks like a fish hook.

Part of the trick is defining the borders.


27 posted on 06/05/2006 5:13:58 PM PDT by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: maine-iac7

I was responding to post #6.


28 posted on 06/05/2006 5:13:58 PM PDT by kinoxi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: maine-iac7

No lines in the sky, plenty of other stars and no one set the borders.


29 posted on 06/05/2006 5:16:22 PM PDT by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: maine-iac7

The 1006 supernova as imagined by astronomer Tunc Tezel to have been seen from a spot in what is now known as Turkey

From Wikipedia :

The 1006 Supernova was the highest relative magnitude stellar event in recorded history. First appearing in the constellation of Lupus between April 30 and May 1 of that year, this "guest star" was described by observers in Switzerland, Egypt, Iraq, China, and Japan. The Egyptian astrologer Ali bin Ridwan, writing in a commentary on Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos, has left us the most complete historical description of the supernova. He says that the object was 2-1/2 to three times as large as the disc of Venus, and about one-quarter the brightness of the Moon, and, like all other observers, says that the star was low on the southern horizon. Monks at the Benedictine abbey at St. Gall broadly corroborate bin Ridwan's observations as to magnitude and location in the sky, additionally writing that "[i]n a wonderful manner this was sometimes contracted, sometimes diffused, and moreover sometimes extinguished." This last is often taken as proof that the supernova was of Type Ia. Some sources state that the star was bright enough to cast shadows; it was certainly seen during daylight hours for some time, and the modern-day astronomer Frank Winkler has said that "in the spring of 1006, people could probably have read manuscripts at midnight by its light."

There appear to have been two distinct phases to the observation of the supernova. There was first a three-month period at which it was at its brightest; after this period it diminished, then returned for a period of about eighteen months. While most astrologers interpreted the event as a portent of warfare and famine, it is worth noting that the Chinese astrologer Chou K'o-ming interpreted for the emperor that the star was actually an "auspicious star."

A petroglyph of the Hohokam has been discovered which may be the first known North American representation of the supernova.[1]

30 posted on 06/05/2006 5:18:29 PM PDT by Plutarch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: blam
But until now, nobody thought that prehistoric Native Americans followed events in the sky.

Got to wonder why these ludicrous statements ever get outside the cubicle.

31 posted on 06/05/2006 5:19:05 PM PDT by RightWhale (Off touch and out of base)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: maine-iac7
-Or why Native Americans who lived 1000 years ago are "pre-historic"?-

Prehistoric means they did not keep written records of their past.

Egypt and Sumer exited the prehistoric age approx. 5500 yrs. ago. Others followed eventually. Prehistory applies to different peoples at different times.
32 posted on 06/05/2006 5:19:40 PM PDT by Lost Dutchman (You can lead a liberal to knowledge, but you can't make them think)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: From many - one.
Why should the two continents have the same celestial imagery?

They also had commercial trade.

33 posted on 06/05/2006 5:20:19 PM PDT by RightWhale (Off touch and out of base)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale

Cn you give me a f'r instance?


34 posted on 06/05/2006 5:24:56 PM PDT by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: blam
It depicts a scorpion and an eight-pointed star. "I had just been reading about the supernova of AD 1006 and I knew it appeared in the constellation Scorpius, so the connection flashed into my mind."

Wow what are the odds that American Indians in 1006 AD used the same name for a constellation?

35 posted on 06/05/2006 5:25:26 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Make them go home!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: From many - one.

Most likely because the Vedic culture influenced many cultures all over the world thousands of years ago.


36 posted on 06/05/2006 5:35:41 PM PDT by little jeremiah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Mike Darancette

They did.

Zuni...ituana

Keres....iyatiku infants go there at death

Sumo....itoki receives souls of the dead

Maya tz'ek, hoa-tziquii cares for dead, woman with scorpion tail

oh, and just for fun:
Mesopotamian ...ishkhara guards gate to underworld, woman with scorpion tail


37 posted on 06/05/2006 5:37:26 PM PDT by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Mike Darancette

See my comment above. BTW, the Greeks learned their astronomy and astrology from the scholars of India.


38 posted on 06/05/2006 5:37:38 PM PDT by little jeremiah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: little jeremiah

Pre-Vedic

First swastika was carved ino the underside of a bird figurine somewhere in what is now Russia, roughly 6000BC.
I'll look for a cite or site, my stuff is sort of packed away.


39 posted on 06/05/2006 5:39:57 PM PDT by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: blam
But until now, nobody thought that prehistoric Native Americans followed events in the sky.

Is the ignorance of Native American cultures just ignorance or deliberate?

Aside from the observatories in Central America - there are the medicine wheels and many other archaeo-astronomical designs that capture the solstice suns, to mark the seasons....

the observatory at Chichen - Itza - excerpt from site (link: http://www.civilization.ca/civil/maya/mmc07eng.html )

)

(My daughter is going to the Yukatan to see Chichen Itza next week - envy envy)

from the link

"Of all the world's ancient calendar systems, the Maya and other Mesoamerican systems are the most complex, intricate and accurate. Calculations of the congruence of the 260-day and the 365-day Maya cycles is almost exactly equal to the actual solar year in the tropics, with only a 19-minute margin of error. Maya astronomer-priests looked to the heavens for guidance. They used observatories, shadow-casting devices, and observations of the horizon to trace the complex motions of the sun, the stars and planets in order to observe, calculate and record this information in their chronicles, or "codices". From these observations, the Maya developed calendars to keep track of celestial movements and the passage of time. The Maya also kept detailed records of the moon, although these do not seem to constitute a formal lunar calendar. With the aid of a forked stick, astronomer-priests used only the naked eye to take observations that allowed them to calculate the path of Venus and other celestial bodies. From the records of their observations they could calculate with precision events such as solar eclipses."

************ The Mayan's famous "Calendar Stone" (wrongly attributed to the Aztecs) prophecies about thirteen cycles of time - mostly now past - that end in Dec 2012...coinciding with the predictions of Nostradamus and Casey -

yep, those "prehistoric" savages were surely way behind us... /s

40 posted on 06/05/2006 5:42:43 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Lincoln: "...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
Got to wonder why these ludicrous statements ever get outside the cubicle.

I"ve wondered that for decades - why isn't the rich history of the North American continents native civilizations taught in schools more than just as a passing glance -

Gibson is finally making a movie on one such civilization - the Mayans. Unfortunately, from what I've read, he is injecting the human sacrificing of other groups, like the Aztecs, that really isn't evident, only speculated because of the mind set of most archaeologists, as to the Mayan/

Disappointing...

41 posted on 06/05/2006 5:50:05 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Lincoln: "...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: giobruno

I see a record of the fabulous grudge match of the Scorpion (ctr. left) and the Tarantula ( ctr. low note the 8 legs) which was refereed by the Bull (ctr. rt.).

The smaller 8 legged figure just above the Bull and the Tarantula was the ring girl.

The stick figure to the rt. of the Bull indicates that they are in round two. Note the open triangle representing the priceless World Bug Trophy.

Anyone who has done the sacred Peyote knows this. Just ask Carlos Castenada, he saw it all.

42 posted on 06/05/2006 5:50:57 PM PDT by Covenantor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Lost Dutchman
Prehistoric means they did not keep written records of their past

They certainly did - Took us years to finally be able to decode them -

"writing system of the Pre-Columbian New World that can completely represent spoken language to the same degree as the written language of the old world. ...........Folding tree books were made from fig tree bark and placed in royal tombs. Unfortunately, many of these books did not survive the humidity of the tropics or the invasion of the Spanish, who regarded the symbolic writing as the work of the devil. "

and they burned all they could find.

link

http://www.crystalinks.com/mayanwriting.html

43 posted on 06/05/2006 5:56:36 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Lincoln: "...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Lost Dutchman

If you count Egyptian hieroglyphics as writing then all the hieroglyphics from here should count too.


44 posted on 06/05/2006 6:00:04 PM PDT by Iwentsouth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: maine-iac7

The evidence of Mayan sacrifice and following Venus as a war god is quite compelling.

In school I was taught the Mayan were a very peaceful utopian society.


45 posted on 06/05/2006 6:01:32 PM PDT by Iwentsouth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: From many - one.
What I find interesting is the scorpion. Why should the two continents have the same celestial imagery?

Umm -- because the first thing that comes to mind when you view that part of the sky is a scorpion, with its curled tail and pincers?

46 posted on 06/05/2006 6:03:23 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah" = Satan in disguise)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: maine-iac7
just noticed the pic I posted of the observatory in Chichen - Itza is a red x???'don't know why - it's showing in my preview box?

here's another try


47 posted on 06/05/2006 6:04:26 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Lincoln: "...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: From many - one.

Actually, I stick to the dates in the Vedas themselves. Did you know that one of the Vedic sages (was it Atri?) descibed a stellar event which I cannot for the life of me remember, which computers have now figured out happened 26,000 years ago?


48 posted on 06/05/2006 6:06:30 PM PDT by little jeremiah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: TXnMA

Here, take a look:

Geoff's Photography - Scorpio, Mars and the Milky Way

http://home.iprimus.com.au/rsims/stars08.htm

Besides, the names and myths are also similar.


49 posted on 06/05/2006 6:22:03 PM PDT by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: little jeremiah

No, can you give a little more info so I can google?


50 posted on 06/05/2006 6:23:28 PM PDT by From many - one.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-134 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson