Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

600-Year-Old American Indian Historical Account Has Old Norse Words
The Guard- blogspot ^ | 3-15-2007 | Larry Stroud

Posted on 03/06/2011 12:45:36 PM PST by blam

600-Year-Old American Indian Historical Account Has Old Norse Words

By Larry Stroud, Guard Associate Editor
Published on Thursday March 15, 2007

Vikings and Algonquins. The first American multi-culturalists?

BIG BAY, Mich. — Two experts on ancient America may have solved not only the mysterious disappearance of Norse from the Western Settlement of Greenland in the 1300s, but also are deciphering Delaware (Lenape) Indian history, which they’re finding is written in the Old Norse language.

The history tells how some of the Delaware’s ancestors migrated west to America across a frozen sea and intermarried with the Delaware and other Algonquin Indians. Myron Paine, 72, and Frode Th. Omdahl, 51, met on the Internet six years ago when they were each looking for a rare book, “The Viking and the Red Man,” written by the late Reider T. Sherwin. Together they found copies of all eight volumes with the same name, published mostly in the 1940s.

Using Sherwin as a reference, they found that much of the Algonquin language consists of Old Norse, including Old Norse root words often strung together to make new words that were adopted by Algonquin speakers.

Paine and Omdahl were featured speakers on “Norse Tracks in America” at the first Ancient American Artifact Preservation Foundation annual conference in Big Bay, Mich. in 2005. Paine spoke again at the ’06 conference.

Paine is a lifelong student of history who has a doctorate in agriculture engineering. He taught in two universities, and served as a state and regional Extension engineer covering 10 Great Plains states.

He later worked as an electrical engineer for three aviation companies, a career that included being a primary writer of test reports for the certification of the Cessna 208 aircraft, the Caravan. He grew up as a farm boy in South Dakota, where the “white faces among the Mandan Indians” intrigued him.

Omdahl is a native of Stavanger, Norway who now lives in Asker in the same country. He is educated in journalism, graphic design and marketing communications. A lifelong student of history and an eager genealogist, Omdahl got interested in Norwegian emigration to America.

Researching his family history, he also caught interest in “the first wave” of Norwegian emigrants to America, 800 years before the next “wave.” That the Algonquin Indian languages have many words identical to Old Norse is not a new discovery, as evidenced in books other than Sherwin’s, but the application Paine and Omdahl are using is new. The two are using Sherwin’s eight volumes to decipher the Lenape’s ancient picture stick writing, the Walam Olum. For each picture stick, Lenape historians recited or sang a verse.

“The memory verses of the Walam Olum were created by people speaking Old Norse,” Paine said. “The Walam Olum is a 600-year-old American history composed of pictographs and memory verses. The history tells of fighting the mound builders, Iroquois, and of the arrival of white men.

“Our efforts to decipher the Walam Olum have found a striking correlation of the Walam Olum words to Old Norse phrases,” Paine said. “This relationship strongly supports the hypothesis that Old Norse speakers visited eastern ancient North America and left very tangible evidence of their presence.”

“The Algonquin language is Old Norse,” Sherwin wrote in the preface of his Vol. 4. Sherwin, a native of Norway before he moved to the U.S., began comparing the languages because he heard a New England place name before he saw it in print, and was told it was of American Indian origin.

Sherwin disputed this because he recognized the word as one he had long known — and the meaning was the same. Finding a New England map, Sherwin, familiar with dialectical Norwegian, which is much closer to the Old Norse language than literary Norwegian, immediately recognized dozens of place names as Old Norse. They had the same meanings in both Algonquin and Old Norse.

Michigan and Milwaukee are two examples from his books. Those are names said to be Algonquin, with Michigan meaning “middle sea basin” and Milwaukee meaning “good, beautiful land.”

In Old Norse, “midh” means “middle,” or “lying in the middle”: and “sjoe-kum” or “sjoe-kumme” means “sea basin” or “sea reservoir.”

“Lake Michigan lies midway between Lake Huron and Lake Superior, hence the translation would be correct,” Sherwin wrote.

Milwaukee, in Old Norse, is “milde aak(r)e,” meaning “the pleasant land” — an almost perfect match for the pronunciation and meaning in Algonquin, Sherwin said. Omdahl points out that in old Norwegian languages and dialects, “‘aa’ is pronounced as something between the ‘a’ in ‘war’ and the ‘o’ in ‘horse.’”

“Today it is one of the typical Scandinavian letters — an ‘a’ with a tiny ring over it,” Omdahl said.

“Sherwin’s books have been overlooked because of World War II and because the last six of Sherwin’s books were self published, so only a few books went into libraries,” Paine said. “An original catalog error shelved the books in the rarely used dictionary section of libraries instead of in the linguistic section where they belong.”

“After 16 generations of memorization, the consistency of the recorded sounds is remarkable,” Paine said. “This provides strong evidence that the Walam Olum is an authentic historical document that was first created by people who spoke Old Norse — or a language strongly influenced by Old Norse.

“The last seven verses in chapter 3 of the Walam Olum describe the Norse people of Greenland walking to America on the ice,” Paine said.

The verses describe a mass of people walking to the west to a better land, across the “slippery water, the stone hard water.” The migration corresponds with the “Little Ice Age.”

“I invite everyone to view the evidence online at www.frozentrail.org,” Paine said. Respected author Ida Jane Gallagher of Mount Pleasant, S.C., who spent 28 years working beside authoritative professionals researching ancient America — with much of that work in New England — also compares Sherwin’s Algonquian and Old Norse words and confirms Norse migrations in her book, “Contact With Ancient America,” co-authored with Warren D. Dexter andpublished in 2004.


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: ancientamericans; epigraphyandlanguage; explorers; godsgravesglyphs; indians; norse
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-98 next last

1 posted on 03/06/2011 12:45:44 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv; shamusotoole
Thanks to FReeper Shamusotoole for this article above.

Tracing The Genes

MitochondrialDNA (mtDNA) haplogroup testing led to the surprising hypothesis that some of the first Americans came from Europe thousands of years ago.

2 posted on 03/06/2011 12:49:35 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Fascinating! We are ALL related. LOL The Scots-Irish had Viking/Norse ancestors as well.


3 posted on 03/06/2011 12:50:03 PM PST by madison10
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

thanks for posting. very interesting


4 posted on 03/06/2011 1:00:45 PM PST by vbmoneyspender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Fascinating. Thanks for the interesting post.


5 posted on 03/06/2011 1:01:57 PM PST by Huck (Mrs. Palin = Christine O'Donnell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: madison10
"The Scots-Irish had Viking/Norse ancestors as well. "

I am one of those, yDNA R1b and mtDNA 'V'.
I could have been a Viking who went to Ireland and stayed.
My grandmother is related (U5a DNA) to 9,000 year old Cheddar Man

6 posted on 03/06/2011 1:05:45 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: blam

Maybe how the blue eye gene came to be in Native Americans?


7 posted on 03/06/2011 1:09:29 PM PST by Rebelbase
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rebelbase
"Maybe how the blue eye gene came to be in Native Americans?

Mandans?

I've read that Thomas Jefferson ordered Lewis & Clark not to mention one word about light-skinned, blue eyed Indians in their written scouting report to him.
His concern was that some other European power would use that 'hook' to claim those areas that were not yet part of the USA. So....

8 posted on 03/06/2011 1:15:14 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: blam

Very interesting ! Thanks.


9 posted on 03/06/2011 1:15:56 PM PST by Viiksitimali
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam
Those are names said to be Algonquin, with Michigan meaning “middle sea basin” and Milwaukee meaning “good, beautiful land.”

Wisconsin must be Algonquin/Old Norse for "land of no wampum"...

10 posted on 03/06/2011 1:17:02 PM PST by mikrofon (Norse by Norse-West)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rebelbase
(Prince) Madoc In America
11 posted on 03/06/2011 1:17:21 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: blam
“Our efforts to decipher the Walam Olum have found a striking correlation of the Walam Olum words to Old Norse phrases

Additional evidence supporting this theory was found in a recently translated Walam Olum text which read, in part, "What's in your wallet?"

12 posted on 03/06/2011 1:17:28 PM PST by GreenHornet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Wonder how The Orthodoxy in science are taking this?


13 posted on 03/06/2011 1:19:31 PM PST by Darksheare (Dear Interdimensional Monstrosity, I fear our relationship has taken a turn for the worse...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GreenHornet

Maybe they walked west looking for Romans to kill.


14 posted on 03/06/2011 1:21:05 PM PST by east1234 (Cut, Kill, Dig and Drill!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: blam

There’s record of blue eyed Natives east of the Cherokee regions. The largest tribe in the Piedmont spoke Algonquin. There is some speculation that the failed colony at Roanoke Island provided a blue eyed gene.


15 posted on 03/06/2011 1:21:32 PM PST by Rebelbase
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Rebelbase
When the Pilgrims arrived, they were stumpy little fellows topping out at 5'7". Imagine their shock on meeting fair-skinned 6'6" natives! The squaws towered over Miles Standish.

There is no mention of the Injuns chowing down on Lutefisk and washing it down with akvavit, so I am not believing this Norvegian ancestry ting. Could be a ploy to get a casino in Oslo.

16 posted on 03/06/2011 1:26:53 PM PST by Kenny Bunk (Odd, but I never had to ask, "Who, or what exactly is Dwight Eisenhower?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: blam; Huck; madison10; vbmoneyspender; SunkenCiv; shamusotoole
The Walum Olem has always been of great interest to a small group devoted to finding out who the Europeans behind it might have been.

I didn't know this guy had done an 8 volume piece on it, but he undoubtedly brought in all the related materials he could find.

I have a single volume of a book written by a fellow who knew the writer, and probably Myron Payne ~ and I know that Mr. Cline, a family friend, was probably also in that circle (he worked with Indians in various places to reclaim their cultural heritage/baggage).

The little bit of the material I've ever seen is fairly readable ~ provided you have a guide to American Indian sign language (which shows up in it as well) and some experience with Old West Gothic (including that quaint language used in England before the Normans conquered the place in 1066).

So Frode Th. Omdahl, from Stavanger, the Viking's very jumping off place cracked the code.

I wonder if he also earlier studied American Indian Sign Language and if the pictographs matched those standards for ideographic representations.

BTW, the Walum Olem has been considered made-up BS since it was discovered ~ a genuine fake ~ but yet, it was always pretty obvious that it was trying to convey meaning and information. The imprint of actual language is in there. It's not just an apparent jumble of clan structures and totems.

17 posted on 03/06/2011 1:28:20 PM PST by muawiyah (Make America Safe For Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: blam
Michigan and Milwaukee are two examples from his books. Those are names said to be Algonquin, with Michigan meaning “middle sea basin” and Milwaukee meaning “good, beautiful land.”

In Old Norse, “midh” means “middle,” or “lying in the middle”: and “sjoe-kum” or “sjoe-kumme” means “sea basin” or “sea reservoir.”

“Lake Michigan lies midway between Lake Huron and Lake Superior, hence the translation would be correct,” Sherwin wrote.


I think this was a bit garbled. It makes more sense to say that Michigan is the land between Lake Huron and Lake Michigan so that the translation of land "lying in the middle" of "sea basins" would be correct.
18 posted on 03/06/2011 1:28:39 PM PST by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Didn’t some of them also have red hair?


19 posted on 03/06/2011 1:30:20 PM PST by Melinda in TN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Rebelbase

No proof as of yet any American Indian in my family but my ancestors look like American Indian. All my granddads brothers and sisters had dark skin and dark eyes. My granddad has light skin and blue eyes. He had 12 brothers and sisters. So 1 in 13 ended up with blue eyes light skin in his family. Interesting.....


20 posted on 03/06/2011 1:32:34 PM PST by fallingwater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Rebelbase; blam

Eye color is pretty much controlled by SEVERAL GENES. http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=29 There are also some physical controls ~ like is the pigment in front of the lens, or behind the lens, and are there pigment deposits in/on/around the Iris for “yellow” when the main deposits elsewhere are “black”.


21 posted on 03/06/2011 1:39:13 PM PST by muawiyah (Make America Safe For Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: fallingwater

Supposedly my former MIL has a rare eye disease that is only found in Seminole Indians. Never heard anything about it outside their family so I take it with a grain of salt.


22 posted on 03/06/2011 1:40:16 PM PST by Rebelbase
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: blam

I have to wonder:

If the Norse movement into North America was significant enough to have the effect on language the article indicates it had, why did it not have a more visible effect in other areas, for instance metal working.

The Norse of the time knew how to work metal, so why were the Amerinds still using flint hundreds of years later?


23 posted on 03/06/2011 1:52:54 PM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

“Two experts on ancient America may have solved not only the mysterious disappearance of Norse from the Western Settlement of Greenland in the 1300s,”

I think the politically incorrect version of why the Norse settlers disappeared was that they were eaten by eskimos.


24 posted on 03/06/2011 1:58:46 PM PST by RFEngineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

I gasp when thinking about the horrible discrimination these refugees of Global Cooling must have faced. What kind of reparations are due from the Indigenous Peoples? Surely trillions given 600 years of compound interest. If it makes a difference in the life of one child it will all be worth it.


25 posted on 03/06/2011 2:02:02 PM PST by Darteaus94025
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam
This story would be excellent inspiration for a really strange Halloween costume.
26 posted on 03/06/2011 2:08:18 PM PST by Dr. Sheldon Cooper (I am one lab accident away from being a super-villian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

“‘aa’ is pronounced as something between the ‘a’ in ‘war’ and the ‘o’ in ‘horse.’”

There is no between, the way I pronounce war and horse.


27 posted on 03/06/2011 2:18:33 PM PST by eartrumpet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Darksheare
Ancient American Skeleton Has European DNA Link
28 posted on 03/06/2011 3:44:19 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Kenny Bunk
"Could be a ploy to get a casino in Oslo. "

I have 1st 'rights' to the Oslo Casino. I have haplogroup 'V' as do 52% of the Skolt Sa'ami.

Before the Fall of the Reindeer People

29 posted on 03/06/2011 3:48:58 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Cave Skeleton Is European, 1,300 Years Old

"When he arrived at the site, “I saw an elongated group of markings along the right side,” he recalls. “I’d just read a book on Norse runes, and my first thought was that these were archaic runes.”

He later read about carvings found in Ireland and Wales, usually on the edges of grave markers, that made use of an ancient Celtic alphabet of connected lines and slashes known as Ogam.

30 posted on 03/06/2011 3:56:09 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Melinda in TN
"Didn’t some of them also have red hair? "

The Si-Te-Cah did

Who Were The Si-Te-Cah

Lovelock, Nevada, is about eighty miles northeast of Reno. It was in a cave near here, in 1911, that guano miners found mummies, bones, and artifacts buried under four feet of bat excrement. The desiccated bodies belonged to a very tall people - with red hair.

Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?)

31 posted on 03/06/2011 4:06:21 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: blam
You still have to remember that Japanese and Korean people have some RED HEADED ANCESTORS.

There are also two kinds of red hair found among East Asians. One type occurs because of the hair thickness ~ it works as an interference pattern and you'll see strong hints of red. Another type occurs because the person has a great deal of the Western European yellow-brown/red-brown pigment.

Since both populations have been able to travel around the Pacific litoral for the last 15,000 years, even a very few number of survivors should have left behind some genetic markers still discoverable in native American Indian populations ~ and, lo and behold, they have.

Without getting into that very much what it means is that finding red heads on the Pacific Coast is not at all surprising!

Koreans and Japanese, or folks starting off from those places in the last 1400 years could easily have made it to America taking the same old route around the Gulf of Alaska and all the way to South America. They'd probably have some red hair from white ancestors in East India where the ruling class in Japan had lived some 400 years earlier.

32 posted on 03/06/2011 4:19:46 PM PST by muawiyah (Make America Safe For Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: blam; shamusotoole; Elsie

Tak altså mange! Udmærket nyheder. Hvad synes i om Wisconsin? Var der hvilken som helst lamaniter? Hvem var den Høj Cumorah folk?


33 posted on 03/06/2011 4:22:51 PM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the Inman FReepers Meet July 23 Pray Jim Rob Can Make It)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KrisKrinkle
Working metal is a neat trick. You don't find iron everywhere. You'd need to get all the way to Otsego NY for mineable rock which was arguably accessible from the surface ~ they mined it in tunnels.

Manassas Virginia is the next site South where it would have been easy to get at.

The mineable iron in Pittsburgh was found by folks who knew what to look for ~

Copper is another story ~ go to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan ~ it's just laying around, as it was in SE Indiana, and a couple of other spots. However, you need zinc or tin to make it really useful.

Another item ~ the East Coast of North America is highly acidic. These guys could have been turning out all sorts of iron implements, but they'd been dissolved into the soil by the time other Europeans got here.

If there were just 20 years of delay between their arrival in America and their ability to settle in one spot (rather than wander around fighting Iroquois, Mohicans and others, the old timers with the knowledge would have been gone!

34 posted on 03/06/2011 4:27:31 PM PST by muawiyah (Make America Safe For Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: blam
Just rememberm Our ancestor that caused the Medieval Global warming made all this possible.
35 posted on 03/06/2011 4:32:09 PM PST by barb-tex (Oh Well, I don't actually KNOW he is a Muzzie!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: blam; shamusotoole; muawiyah; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

· GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach ·
· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
 Antiquity Journal
 & archive
 Archaeologica
 Archaeology
 Archaeology Channel
 BAR
 Bronze Age Forum
 Discover
 Dogpile
 Eurekalert
 Google
 LiveScience
 Mirabilis.ca
 Nat Geographic
 PhysOrg
 Science Daily
 Science News
 Texas AM
 Yahoo
 Excerpt, or Link only?
 


Thanks blam for posting it, thanks to shamusotoole for sending the link to blam, and thanks muawiyah for the additional ping and comments.
Two experts on ancient America may have solved not only the mysterious disappearance of Norse from the Western Settlement of Greenland in the 1300s, but also are deciphering Delaware (Lenape) Indian history, which they're finding is written in the Old Norse language.
The opening pages of one of those late 19th century local history books (these were the products of companies which had door-to-door salesmen, it was along the lines of those "Who's Who" books that still peddle their wares, and of course, both are predecessors of LinkedIn and other such websites) from my home county here in MIchigan opens with a discussion of the PreColumbian Vikings in America. :')
America B.C.
by Barry Fell
(1976)
find it in a nearby library
A fascinating letter I received from a Shoshone Indian who had been traveling in the Basque country of Spain tells of his recognition of Shoshone words over there, including his own name, whose Shoshone meaning proved to match the meaning attached to a similar word by the modern Basques. Unfortunately I mislaid this interesting letter. If the Shoshone scholar who wrote to me should chance to see these words I hope he will forgive me and contact me again. The modern Basque settlers of Idaho may perhaps bring forth a linguist to investigate matters raised in this chapter. [p 173]
To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
 

· History topic · history keyword · archaeology keyword · paleontology keyword ·
· Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·


36 posted on 03/06/2011 5:07:52 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: fallingwater
No proof as of yet any American Indian in my family

...but there was this Indian milk-wagon driver in the town.

37 posted on 03/06/2011 5:21:23 PM PST by ElkGroveDan (If every person were like Sarah Palin, this world would be a peaceful, beautiful world to live in.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: madison10

Sailors really get around.


38 posted on 03/06/2011 5:23:32 PM PST by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: blam
The Norse who settled Iceland had been living in the Hebrides and Ireland before that, at least some of them, and brought along Celtic slave-women to Iceland.

So the Algonquian word "tomahawk" may actually honor its inventor,one Irish-Norseman, Tom O'Hawk.

Seriously, there is no reason that the surviving Norse accounts of the trips to North America must be the whole story--there could have been other voyages and other settlements that were forgotten. But it is a long way from the confirmed Norse settlement at the northern end of Newfoundland to the Great Lakes or other Algonquian areas. (A medieval Norwegian coin turned up in an archaeological dig in Maine--but I don't know if that means some Norse got to Maine, or whether the Indians in Maine got the coin through trade with other tribes.)

39 posted on 03/06/2011 5:39:23 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
"Working metal is a neat trick. You don't find iron everywhere. You'd need to get all the way to Otsego NY for mineable rock which was arguably accessible from the surface ~ they mined it in tunnels."

I just finished a book by the guy who excavated the Viking settlement at L'Anse Aux Meadows. He pointed out that the vikings frequently used "bog ore" for their iron work. I wasn't familiar with the term before, but bog ore is found around bogs and springs with iron-bearing ground water. L'Anse Aux Meadows had an abundance of bog ore and they found evidence of a smithy there.

The author also believed there were at least three other trips to L'Anse Aux Meadows by Vikings after Leif Erikson, based on information he gleaned from some of the Icelandic sagas (he pointed out that there are no known surviving examples of literature from Greenland).

40 posted on 03/06/2011 6:14:38 PM PST by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: blam

Interesting, thanks. Anyone found the Templar fleet yet?


41 posted on 03/06/2011 6:26:42 PM PST by americanophile ("this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives"-Ataturk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Verginius Rufus
You reminded me of this article:

American Indian Sailed To Europe With Vikings?

Five hundred years before Columbus sailed the ocean blue, a Native American woman may have voyaged to Europe with Vikings, according to a provocative new DNA study.


42 posted on 03/06/2011 6:45:15 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: blam
YOWZA!

And I *don't* say that lightly.

(Thanks, bookmarked for later).

Cheers!

43 posted on 03/06/2011 7:14:04 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Flag_This
Bog iron doesn't need to bubble up. You just go to a stream flowing down from almost any sort of mountain and you can find "iron deposits" ~ but they are NOT enough to maintain any sort of serious iron age civilization, and in the very acidic East Coast everything you make is going to be subjected to substantial corrosion so there aren't going to be many hand me downs.

When Captain whos'this built the House of Seven Gables there in Salem the colonists were still shipping in NAILS from Europe.

I would imagine the smithy in Newfoundland was really popular until they ran out of stuff ~

Remember, these Vikings didn't have a great storehouse of iron mine lore to depend on. Even when DeSoto visited the MidWest he stopped at Terre Haute and sent men with wagons out across the countryside to the West by SW to GET GOLD. They came back with some native copper and iron pyrite.

They missed the gold no more than 10 miles ~ the local Indians knew all about it, but weren't terribly interested in it, or the copper. In fact, the Indians all the way down to Mobile KNEW about the gold site in Southern Indiana ~ but absent improved techniques they really couldn't get enough of it to do anything about, but it's pretty much the ONLY gold between Mobile and just North of Sault Ste. Marine.

44 posted on 03/06/2011 7:21:01 PM PST by muawiyah (Make America Safe For Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: blam

Wow. Interesting.


45 posted on 03/06/2011 7:23:27 PM PST by csvset
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
"You just go to a stream flowing down from almost any sort of mountain and you can find "iron deposits" ~ but they are NOT enough to maintain any sort of serious iron age civilization,"

The Vikings obtained most of their iron from bog ore, as did the Saxons in England - I don't know if you would consider those examples of serious iron age civilizations, but it seemed to be suffient to provide for plenty of helmets, swords, mail hauberks, etc.

Producing iron requires many specialized skills, if the Vikings did abandon western Greenland for North America, I could see how that knowledge could easily be lost in a few generations - or even more quickly with the deaths of a few key people.

46 posted on 03/06/2011 8:00:49 PM PST by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

“You still have to remember that Japanese and Korean people have some RED HEADED ANCESTORS”

I am 100% celtic but according to my brothers DNA analysis through the Nat’l Geographic genome project we share genes with 40% of Japan.


47 posted on 03/06/2011 8:05:39 PM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Domestic Church

Everybody, even the chimps, are about 98% the same ~


48 posted on 03/06/2011 8:07:39 PM PST by muawiyah (Make America Safe For Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Claud

poing.


49 posted on 03/06/2011 8:09:34 PM PST by Antoninus (Fight the homosexual agenda. Support marriage -- www.nationformarriage.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Flag_This
To "do iron work" you really have to have a settled condition with plenty of combustibles and iron in relatively close proximity.

Doing smithing on the run is a different sort of business than rendering ore down to iron, and then doing the build up to implements.

Back in Scanderhoovia the Vikings had access to one of the world's great iron lodes ~ up in Newfoundland, you'll notice that even today modern men have NOT managed to build a major steel industry!

Doesn't mean they aren't trying, but a quick review of literature available on the internet reveals that it wasn't until the late 1800s that the major iron ore deposits in Newfoundland were FOUND and DEVELOPED to any degree.

Remember, in a society with, at best, wooden shovels, it is unlikely they'll find much iron ore under 20 feet of wind blown loess or other debris.

50 posted on 03/06/2011 8:15:37 PM PST by muawiyah (Make America Safe For Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-98 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson