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'Discovery of a lifetime': Stone Age temple found in Orkney is 800 years older than Stonehenge...
Daily Mail ^ | 2nd January 2012 | Ted Thornhill

Posted on 01/04/2012 6:00:46 PM PST by SunkenCiv

The site, known as the Ness of Brodgar, was investigated by BBC2 documentary A History of Ancient Britain, with presenter Neil Oliver describing it as 'the discovery of a lifetime'.

So far the remains of 14 Stone Age buildings have been excavated, but thermal geophysics technology has revealed that there are 100 altogether, forming a kind of temple precinct.

Until now Stonehenge was considered to have been the centre of Neolithic culture, but that title may now go to the Orkney site, which contains Britain's earliest known wall paintings.

Oliver said: 'The excavation of a vast network of buildings on Orkney is allowing us to recreate an entire Stone Age world.

'It's opening a window onto the mysteries of Neolithic religion.'

Experts believe that the site will give us insights into what Neolithic people believed about the world and the universe.

Nick Card, an archaeologist from the University of the Highlands and Islands, said: 'It's an archaeologist's dream site. The excitement of the site never fades.

'This site is a one-off.'

Professor Mark Edmonds from the University of York, meanwhile, describes the excavation as 'a site of international importance'.

Some parts of the temple are 800 years older than Stonehenge, which lies 500 miles to the south in Wiltshire.

The site is very close to the Ring of Brodgar stone circle and the standing stones of Stenness and is surrounded by a wall believed to have been 10-feet high.

Archaeologists found red zigzag lines on some of the buildings' inner walls that they believe is Stone Age art -- the oldest ever found.

So far only around 10 per cent of the site has been examined -- and it could take decades to uncover and analyse everything there.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: archaeoastronomy; godsgravesglyphs; megaliths; nessofbrodgar; orkney; ringofbrodgar; scotland; scotlandyet; stonehenge; stonesofstennis
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'More important than Stonehenge': The temple precinct being uncovered in Orkney contains 100 Stone Age buildings

Stone Age temple found in Orkney is 800 years older than Stonehenge
Big draw: Britain's earliest examples of artwork have been found on the walls at the Orkney site

Stone Age temple found in Orkney is 800 years older than Stonehenge

1 posted on 01/04/2012 6:00:55 PM PST by SunkenCiv
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2 posted on 01/04/2012 6:01:44 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: SunkenCiv

In before 3G ping.


3 posted on 01/04/2012 6:03:37 PM PST by Rebelbase
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The site in Orkney is surrounded by other Neolithic remains

Stone Age temple found in Orkney is 800 years older than Stonehenge
Golden oldie: The megalithic archaeological stone circle called The Ring of Brodgar is nearby

Stone Age temple found in Orkney is 800 years older than Stonehenge

4 posted on 01/04/2012 6:03:49 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: Renfield; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Renfield.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


5 posted on 01/04/2012 6:04:57 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: Rebelbase

I have very slow electrons here.


6 posted on 01/04/2012 6:07:04 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: Rebelbase

In before the Helen Thomas reference.


7 posted on 01/04/2012 6:07:53 PM PST by ConservativeChris
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To: JoeProBono; bigheadfred
The Untouchables

8 posted on 01/04/2012 6:10:29 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: SunkenCiv; Disambiguator; MplsSteve

“Can I raise a practical question at this point? Are we gonna do ‘Stonehenge’ tomorrow?”


9 posted on 01/04/2012 6:12:46 PM PST by ItsOurTimeNow ("Go now. Run along and tell your Xerxes that he faces Free Men here...not slaves.")
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To: SunkenCiv

Good report. Thanks, SunkenCiv.


10 posted on 01/04/2012 6:13:04 PM PST by SharpRightTurn ( White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Just downloaded a recent program regarding this discovery from a UK torrent site. Haven’t watched it yet, but I’m sure it will be interesting.


11 posted on 01/04/2012 6:17:26 PM PST by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: ConservativeChris
In before the Helen Thomas reference.

I think Helen Thomas is 800 years older than Stonehenge.

12 posted on 01/04/2012 6:17:45 PM PST by immadashell
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To: SunkenCiv

‘This site is a one-off.’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zssp5RlxnM&feature=related


13 posted on 01/04/2012 6:18:54 PM PST by tumblindice (Caveman up)
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To: SunkenCiv
Archaeologists found red zigzag lines on some of the buildings' inner walls that they believe is Stone Age art -- the oldest ever found.

Yeah, it's like a record store, dude...


14 posted on 01/04/2012 6:19:44 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: SunkenCiv

That is a really CRAPPY climate up there...kudos to those guys for surviving - 5000 years ago.


15 posted on 01/04/2012 6:21:29 PM PST by BobL ("Heartless" and "Inhumane" FReepers for Cain - we've HAD ENOUGH)
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To: SunkenCiv

Yeah, just kill me now. (My electrons are slower than yours.)


16 posted on 01/04/2012 6:25:08 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: SunkenCiv

17 posted on 01/04/2012 6:27:27 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas gerit)
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To: SunkenCiv

I sailed around the Isle of Mull with my British cousins, a number of years ago, and visited a number of the smaller islands. It was pretty cold and rainy, but very beautiful. I must say, I think the Orkneys are a bit far north for my liking.


18 posted on 01/04/2012 6:29:36 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: SunkenCiv

So am I correct these are people who predated the Celtic waves into the British Isles?

Were they Picts?

Or wideranging North Germanics straying from Norway, etc.?

Or something else?


19 posted on 01/04/2012 6:44:16 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: BobL
It was warmer then.

At the same time Lake Erie was substantially larger than it is now and reached over into Western Indiana. It drained off 4,000 years ago (as the Niagara River dug into the Niagara Escarpment).

The Sahara was settling into desert conditions, as was Arabia, and Egypt was rising along the banks of the Nile. Still, the Great Western Depression was also a lake ~ it dried up after Roman times.

20 posted on 01/04/2012 6:45:16 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: SunkenCiv

Why are they always jumping to the conclusion that these places like stone henge are temples? They look like forts to me.


21 posted on 01/04/2012 6:47:50 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: truth_seeker
There were no Germans ~ that came much later.

This was simply a settlement created by the descendants of people who'd holed up in the Western Refugia South of the Pyranees in Spain.

In fact, at this time the people who became the Celts were still pretty much on the Continent and hadn't reached Britain, but there were already people there. The Germans do not achieve a separate identity until they rebel against their Celtic overlords along the Danube. That's about 1000 BC.

Here's something for you to keep in mind. Ancient peoples can be identified by culture (pots, designs, etc.), DNA (taken from bone fragments), or language.

You get back a few thousand years everybody is a stone ager ~ or Paleolithic hunter/gatherer who makes his arrowheads and other stone tools in a certain pattern.

Then a little further toward our time they are making baskets and pottery that manage to leave behind impressions or shards. Again, that's culture.

Finally, we come to the age of writing ~ which starts in Sumer and spreads rapidly ~ and that gives us history and language.

This village in the Orkneys is pretty old ~ but not as old as some in Ukraine where people settled who'd been protected from the ice in yet another refugia.

There are places even older than those in the Middle East.

What is exciting here is that civilization in Britain appears to have been an indigenous product and wasn't shipped in by foreigners.

22 posted on 01/04/2012 6:55:01 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: mamelukesabre; SunkenCiv

Maybe they grouped up in the coldest months to conserve resources.


23 posted on 01/04/2012 7:02:03 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: muawiyah

I’ve heard the term “beaker folk”...is that what these people were?


24 posted on 01/04/2012 7:12:56 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: Cicero
I visited the main island of the Orkneys many years ago--in midsummer so it was mild weather but stayed light very late (it's almost 60 degrees north, so not sure it got really dark at all). I went there to see the church of St. Magnus, one of the Orkney earls who was murdered by a cousin and then declared a martyr. At that time I thought that a Scots-Irish family I am descended from was descended from the killer, but that now seems unlikely.

There is a medieval Icelandic saga about the earls of Orkney, available in English translation (the Orkneyinga Saga)--it was Norse for much of the Middle Ages.

25 posted on 01/04/2012 7:42:17 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: mamelukesabre

I think this is just pre-bronze age ~ but I’d have to see some expert identify the culture.


26 posted on 01/04/2012 7:47:49 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Verginius Rufus

We visited Fingal’s Cave, and the Monastery on Iona from which much of Europe was Christianized. We were there at the vernal equinox, and the sun went below the horizon for about half an hour, but it never really got dark.


27 posted on 01/04/2012 7:57:48 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: ConservativeChris
“UNESCO World Heritage Site”

Evey time I hear that I want to truck over there with a sledge hammer and spray paint.

28 posted on 01/04/2012 7:58:36 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Verginius Rufus
The Highland Scots and the Coastal Scandinavians are a very mixed population. Today the Icelanders are estimated to have about 90% Irish and 10% Norse ancestry.

I've seen 50/50 estimates for the highlanders and the non-Sami Norwegians called "Norse".

However, just about 100% of their ancestors came from the Westernmost Ice Age Refugia ~ whether they are Sa'ami, Norse, Celt, or whatever.

You find a slightly different population in Southern Europe, and there's a third group mixed in in Eastern Europe but pretty much the same folks descended from the same folks in the Refugia.

As you move East you start running into populations that left the Refugia and traveled North and went South of the residual ice cap in Scandinavia. They moved East and then South. The Sa'ami differ by going North of the residual ice all the way around the Arctic coast into the Kola peninsula. They also went to America, North Africa, and even tropical Africa. Yet others penetrated all the way to East Asia (the Yakuts have the X factor genes)

The Japanese ruling caste since 600 AD or thereabouts are descended from Yakuts invaders who arrived on the heels of the climate anomaly that shut down China's civilization for the next 300 years.

The Orkneys are different. The native population AFTER the Sa'ami moved through there going North about 12500 BC, but BEFORE the Norse arrived in 1 AD from wherever primitive Germans came from seems to be unrelated to both groups until the arrival of Vikings in about 800 or 900 AD.

That doesn't mean THAT group didn't spread its genes around among the others.

I don't think they've done enough DNA research on the problem to give us all the answers needed ~ first, they've gotta' find the Orkney Islanders. They've been moving out of there in recent decades.

29 posted on 01/04/2012 8:03:59 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: mass55th

linky?


30 posted on 01/04/2012 8:05:29 PM PST by Dryman (Define Natural Born Citizen)
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To: bigheadfred

:’) That was the approach recommended by the Red Queen.


31 posted on 01/04/2012 8:19:38 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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To: mamelukesabre

I have had the same thought many times. Life was undoubtedly tough and most of their energy was probably spent on practical matters.


32 posted on 01/04/2012 8:40:16 PM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: SunkenCiv
There is usually some genetic material absorbed from earlier populations for invaders don't always bring all that many women with them. Attractive women were a valuable as a commodity in most historical societies. You see that even in North America where Indian tribes were killing the warriors of their enemy but capturing the women as a prize. There seems to be an endless assortment of peoples tracking across Europe for various reasons but whether anybody is related to the folks who built these ruins isn't as important as that they were building things like this in early Europe. Thanks for posting this.
33 posted on 01/04/2012 8:42:12 PM PST by dog breath
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To: Cicero
I assume you meant the summer solstice--at the vernal equinox there are 12 hours of day and 12 hours of night.

Scotland's latitudes are roughly equivalent to the Alaska panhandle's.

34 posted on 01/04/2012 8:57:53 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: muawiyah

What I remember from a course I took as an undergraduate is that they believe that the Norse colonizers of Iceland brought along their Celtic slave women. That would explain the DNA, and the fact that the language of Iceland is descended from Old Norse (not Gaelic).


35 posted on 01/04/2012 9:00:54 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: dog breath

Cabeza de Vaca mentions an Indian tribe in Texas which killed all of its girl babies at birth, and acquired wives from other tribes.


36 posted on 01/04/2012 9:02:10 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: SunkenCiv

37 posted on 01/04/2012 9:13:54 PM PST by garjog
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To: garjog

Watch the film Teenage Caveman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vew9y0FAP0&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLF581CAC3894703A7


38 posted on 01/04/2012 9:16:26 PM PST by garjog
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To: SunkenCiv

The temp of that island may have been quite different then. Greenland used to be green. I am sure Orkney was warm once. They may have lived on a warmer Orkney than what we know today.


39 posted on 01/04/2012 9:17:21 PM PST by Wild Berry
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To: Verginius Rufus

I had an acquaintance who was from the Faroes, which was settled by the Norse, they considered themselves part Irish due to the Irish women the Norse brought with them. The silent ancient history of women in this world is a tale that is yet to be told through genetics.


40 posted on 01/04/2012 9:29:36 PM PST by dog breath
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To: BobL

It was warmer 8000 years ago than it is today.


41 posted on 01/04/2012 10:12:57 PM PST by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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To: SunkenCiv

Great Thread! Thanks!


42 posted on 01/04/2012 10:18:32 PM PST by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: dog breath
Those Irish women messed up a lot of DNA lines. My surname (ancient Scottish) could be 4 different ethnicity's, but since we got here in the states in the late 1600’s, we married a lot of Mc women. And the surname is no longer in the ancestral Europe homeland. Never thought of taking one as a slave though. Hmmm. Oh well. Wrong century by a long shot.
43 posted on 01/04/2012 10:39:44 PM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: SunkenCiv

Wow. Thanks for these continued postings, Civ. I would love nothing more than to be able to retire...and spend the rest of my days as a volunteer, digging in the dirt on a site like this.


44 posted on 01/05/2012 4:34:00 AM PST by SueRae (I can see November 2012 from my HOUSE!!!!!!!!)
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To: muawiyah

How about sea level in the area. Was it lower making the islands larger?


45 posted on 01/05/2012 5:17:01 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: SunkenCiv
It's an archaeologist's dream site.

Hey, it's a new opportunity for archeologists to make stuff up.

46 posted on 01/05/2012 5:53:01 AM PST by JohnG45
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47 posted on 01/05/2012 7:52:45 AM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: Verginius Rufus
The Indians who practiced female infanticide are called Mariames (or Marianes) and Yguases by Cabeza de Vaca. They apparently lived roughly in the lower Guadalupe River valley of Texas. He says none of the other Indians had this custom.

In the Penguin translation, Alvar Nunez Cabeza de Vaca, Chronicle of the Narvaez Expedition, this is mentioned in chapter 18.

See also Paul Schneider, Brutal Voyage: Cabeza de Vaca and the Epic First Crossing of North America (2007).

48 posted on 01/05/2012 8:57:07 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: garjog; SunkenCiv

These people were far more advanced than we realized. They may not have had advanced weapons, but apperantly they had barbershops, shavers and strapless bras.

49 posted on 01/05/2012 10:00:14 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: SueRae

Thanks SueRae, my pleasure. It’s easy to find and sign up for something like that — it’s hard work, and you actually have to pay your own way (cost is like taking a cruise, or a tour of famous sites somewhere like Egypt), but that’s the way some of these digs get done at all, due to lack of funding. I always enjoy the stupidity of people who think archaeologists get wealthy off grants.


50 posted on 01/05/2012 7:01:01 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Merry Christmas, Happy New Year! May 2013 be even Happier!)
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