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Catholics Revise Mass; Changes Get Mixed Reviews
Christian Post ^ | 11/25/2011 | Gabrielle Devenish

Posted on 11/25/2011 5:38:36 PM PST by SeekAndFind

Catholics across the nation may find themselves a little confused Sunday when the church begins to use a revised Mass.

“I’ll be with everyone else next week (Nov. 27) – I’ll have to relearn the prayers, while this week I already know them,” Jeff Morrow said with a laugh, in an interview in The Christian Post.

“Those who go to Mass only on Easter and Christmas are in for a little surprise,” said Morrow, assistant professor of theology at the Immaculate Conception School of Theology – Seton Hall, in New Jersey.

The English liturgy, which has been in place for 41 years, will be replaced with a newer English translation that is closer to the word-for-word translation of the Latin. That also means the biblical references will become clearer, said Morrow.

“I think this is a good move. It will help Catholics be more conscious of what they are praying,” he said.

“It’s only in the English-speaking Catholic Church. You won’t find it in the Latin-based language churches – the French Catholic Church or the Spanish Catholic Church,” he explained. “Basically they kind of revised the mass that resulted from the Second Vatican Council, where they translated the Latin text and pared it down.”

Biblical references in the 1971 version, which took four years to complete, could be cloudy at times, said Morrow, because a lot was either lost in translation or omitted all together.

“Basically, a lot of translation issues in the literal translation have to deal with omissions. They actually omitted some parts.”

“From the Council of Trent (which closed in 1563) until the Second Vatican Council (which closed in 1965), for Roman Catholics the Mass was celebrated in Latin. After Pope Paul VI revised the Roman Missal, the order of the Mass, it began to be translated into vernacular languages across the globe. The English translators were attempting a dynamic translation as opposed to a literal translation,” he explained.

“With some exceptions, this altered the language in such a way that it tended to occlude the numerous biblical allusions in the prayers to the Mass, which are primarily taken from Scripture. Sometimes whole chunks of text were simply omitted,” the assistant professor added.

Morrow noted that the Vatican was not happy with the translation and that a translation project was initiated by Pope John Paul II in 2000.

“This translation, which will go into effect next week at the beginning of the new liturgical year with the first Sunday of Advent, is a more literal translation of the Latin text from 1970, and includes translations of the entire text, whereas the 1973 English translation included several significant omissions,” he explained.

A word-for-word comparison table is posted on the U.S. bishops’ website. Morrow gave some examples.

“One of the most serious omissions in the original English translation of 1973 was in the prayer called the Gloria,” he said. “The Latin begins with, ‘Gloria in excelsis Deo et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis,’ which [became what used to be] ‘Glory to God in the highest, and peace to his people on earth.’ The new English translation will be more literal, ‘Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to people of good will.’”

Also, instead of omitting the Latin prayer “Laudamus te, benedicimus te, adoramus te, glorificamus te, gratias agimus tibi propter magnam gloriam tuam,” which follows in the original text, the new translation reads,” We praise you, we bless you, we adore you, we glorify you, we give you thanks for your great glory, Lord God, heavenly King….” Morrow said.

U.S. priests have been preparing their congregations for the changes, but not all are happy about it.

“Prayer is not something you tamper with lightly, and you’d better be sure when you do that it’s manifestly better,” Seattle priest Michael Ryan told USA Today.

Morrow had no comment, except to say, “It’s going to be interesting to see what the implementations are Sunday – it’s getting mixed reviews.”


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; mass

1 posted on 11/25/2011 5:38:44 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Those who are unhappy fall into one of two camps: either habit and time have made for reluctance to change for the better, or they are modernists who are displeased by the English speaking world finally getting a better translation. Either way, it’s a wonderful thing, and a welcome one also.


2 posted on 11/25/2011 5:44:04 PM PST by sayuncledave (et Verbum caro factum est (And the Word was made flesh))
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To: SeekAndFind

OH Seek we going start this weekend at my local SO CAL Church I see what about

They been giving us “lesson” about it what going be in it I think what we going odmit or what we going allow in

I THINK SO


3 posted on 11/25/2011 5:44:22 PM PST by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: SeekAndFind

OH Seek we going start this weekend at my local SO CAL Church I see what about

They been giving us “lesson” about it what going be in it I think what we going odmit or what we going allow in

I THINK SO


4 posted on 11/25/2011 5:44:41 PM PST by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: SeekAndFind

Community agitators got to agitate.


5 posted on 11/25/2011 5:46:25 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("The very idea of a community organizer is to stir up a mob for some political purpose." Ann Coulter)
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To: SeekAndFind

The loudest complainers are the liberal dissidents. And, I suppose, some of the younger Catholics who never saw anything else but the lousy ICEL translation may be confused by those complaints.

But, no question, it’s a big improvement.


6 posted on 11/25/2011 5:49:30 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: SeekAndFind
It's about time that the Church took steps to correct the seriously erroneous version of the Mass that has been practiced in this country for the last half century. Those in the younger generation may be confused - they didn't have to take Latin to graduate from high school and are not old enough to remember the actual text translated from Latin. For those of us who remember the Mass from before Vatican II it is a welcome return to the right way of doing things.

Lamh Foistenach Abu!
7 posted on 11/25/2011 5:51:45 PM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines RVN 1969 - St. Michael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: sayuncledave
That makes me in the third camp. I'm a middle-school catechist, pleased with the translations for many reasons, but thoroughly disgusted with the new musical arrangements to which some of our prayers are being set--the Gloria, in particular, is simply atrocious. I believe it would have been a smoother transition, all around, if the Bishops had very strongly encouraged the new prayers to be learned as communal worship, spoken, before having the prayers mangled by absolutely unweildly music.
8 posted on 11/25/2011 5:53:56 PM PST by grellis (I am Jill's overwhelming sense of disgust.)
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To: SeekAndFind

It is not a revised Mass. The author of this article and far too many people think that the Mass in English simply is The Mass. If that were the case, what about the Italian or Spanish or Polish folks?

Is it too hard for these folks to grasp that the translation has been revised (and vastly improved)? Sheesh.


9 posted on 11/25/2011 5:54:49 PM PST by Houghton M.
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To: grellis

Agreed. The publishers are trying to cram the new words into the “old” (campy) melodies.

The problem arises from the Catholic publishing industry. They didn’t dare wait because if they did, people might actually have learned that they could do without these publishers and their overpriced and crappy products.


10 posted on 11/25/2011 5:57:03 PM PST by Houghton M.
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To: Cicero

**liberal dissidents.**

Translation — CINO democrats.


11 posted on 11/25/2011 6:01:58 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: SeekAndFind

Catholics as a whole did not change the Mass. Sheesh the latest news snipes on this would lead one to believe us Catholics are as dumb as bag of hair.


12 posted on 11/25/2011 6:02:11 PM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: SeekAndFind
From the Council of Trent (which closed in 1563) until the Second Vatican Council (which closed in 1965), for Roman Catholics the Mass was celebrated in Latin.

Also, instead of omitting the Latin prayer “Laudamus te, benedicimus te, adoramus te, glorificamus te, gratias agimus tibi propter magnam gloriam tuam,” which follows in the original text, the new translation reads,” We praise you, we bless you, we adore you, we glorify you, we give you thanks for your great glory, Lord God, heavenly King….” Morrow said.

I am going to give Morrow the benefit of the doubt that he didn't actually make these incredibly ignorant utterances and assume that the "reporter" was too thick to understand him properly.

13 posted on 11/25/2011 6:10:06 PM PST by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: sayuncledave
It's been a long time coming!!

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14 posted on 11/25/2011 6:14:08 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: SeekAndFind

I look forward to the “new” translation of the Sacred Liturgy.


15 posted on 11/25/2011 6:24:21 PM PST by Jvette
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To: SeekAndFind
I was an altar boy 6 years total, including all four years of high school, when I also learned four years of Latin. So when the abominable English translation was introduced, I knew that there were wholesale liberties taken with the original Latin version being replaced.
I never used the English version, nor do I plan to use it in the future.
16 posted on 11/25/2011 6:26:03 PM PST by Publius6961 (My world was lovely, until it was taken over by parasites.)
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To: grellis

What upsets me about this mangled version is that it is impossible to sing along which excludes the laity from participating in one of the most beautiful prayers of the Mass.

Hymns sung during the offering or communion are different and I have no problem when the choir or cantor sing difficult arrangements then.

But, if it is a prayer that is part of the worship of the Mass, the laity is meant to join.


17 posted on 11/25/2011 6:29:46 PM PST by Jvette
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To: SeekAndFind

My husband, the Catholic who made his way back to the church after, shall we say, a long hiatus, isn’t mad or anything, just said “And I just re-learned what I was suppose to do and say a few months ago! “ but we’re more then willing to learn what is considered a better translation. My mother still thinks it should all be in Latin, and although her singing voice left her some years back, she knew entire masses in Latin, including all of the songs! I don’t think she missed a Sunday Mass from 1935- 1980- ish.


18 posted on 11/25/2011 6:31:44 PM PST by MacMattico
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To: Jvette

The new translation won’t be unfamiliar in style to what Eastern Catholics get here in the U.S.


19 posted on 11/25/2011 7:53:10 PM PST by rzman21
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To: SeekAndFind
Now if we can just get rid of the flute, guitar, and tambourine players we'll be set. Seriously, I don't need modern music to make me feel “cool” about attending church. I don't like the modern music and the cymbals scare my baby when she falls asleep.
20 posted on 11/25/2011 8:00:19 PM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: SeekAndFind
"U.S. priests have been preparing their congregations for the changes, but not all are happy about it. “Prayer is not something you tamper with lightly, and you’d better be sure when you do that it’s manifestly better,” Seattle priest Michael Ryan told USA Today.

Morrow had no comment, except to say, “It’s going to be interesting to see what the implementations are Sunday – it’s getting mixed reviews.”

Let me guess...he has a bunch of rainbow banners in his church...?

21 posted on 11/25/2011 8:01:10 PM PST by redhead ("Mongo merely pawn in game of life...")
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To: rzman21

As I said, I am looking forward to it.

As a CCD teacher, I have been prepared for it and given study materials regarding it to share with my students.


22 posted on 11/25/2011 8:02:48 PM PST by Jvette
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To: SeekAndFind

I honestly can’t wait to see how the Mass now proceeds in fact.


23 posted on 11/25/2011 8:29:28 PM PST by BelegStrongbow (St. Joseph, patron of fathers, pray for us!)
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To: SeekAndFind
“From the Council of Trent (which closed in 1563) until the Second Vatican Council (which closed in 1965), for Roman Catholics the Mass was celebrated in Latin.

It's been obvious for a very long time: journalists are no longer required to know the subject about which they journal.

24 posted on 11/25/2011 8:30:08 PM PST by Oratam
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To: SeekAndFind
“Prayer is not something you tamper with lightly, and you’d better be sure when you do that it’s manifestly better,” Seattle priest Michael Ryan told USA Today.

Well, Father Ryan, this is happening because those who did the translations in 1971 did them poorly. These changes make the Mass MUCH more prayerful, and more related to Scripture, as it should have been all along, if the folks hadn't done the translation to make it 'more relevant' back in the 70s.

25 posted on 11/25/2011 9:28:13 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Oratam

Before the Council of Trent, the Mass was celebrated in Klingonese ...


26 posted on 11/25/2011 9:31:19 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Jvette
What upsets me about this mangled version is that it is impossible to sing along which excludes the laity from participating in one of the most beautiful prayers of the Mass.

I agree with the beauty of the Gloria and want you to look for something when you next hear it at Mass: When is your cantor lifting his arm or in any way signalling the congregation to join in the song? At our Masses it has been quite clear--we are invited to sing the chorus and that is all. We are being openly excluded from joining in prayer. Astonishing.

27 posted on 11/25/2011 10:48:39 PM PST by grellis (I am Jill's overwhelming sense of disgust.)
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To: Cicero

This is kind of funny for me. I had to learn the ICEL stuff 5 years ago. Now I have to relearn the prayers again. :)


28 posted on 11/25/2011 11:29:01 PM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: grellis

Agree wholeheartedly. My parish that I live in (not the one I work for), makes it difficult to sing along by not putting up the references. I can usually sing by knowing what the songs are, but it’s an irritation. I used to sing in a Choir, and we TRIED to encourage people to sing along with all the parts of the mass.


29 posted on 11/25/2011 11:33:51 PM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: ConorMacNessa

For me, as a child of VC II, who was just little baby when the Latin mass was the mass, this will be very new to me. It will be a new journey for me.


30 posted on 11/26/2011 5:15:05 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl
I hope it is a journey thaat you will find fulfilling, Biggirl!

Lamh Foistenach Abu!
31 posted on 11/26/2011 5:47:00 AM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines RVN 1969 - St. Michael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Before the Council of Trent, the Mass was celebrated in Klingonese ...

After some careful research, it turns out, you are absolutely right! Before the Council of Trent, the priest (or deacon at high masses) turned to the people and chanted:

naDevvo' peghoS (a rather brusk "Go away!")

This was translated Ite, missa est (a decidedly gentle dismissal) under the reforms of Pope St. Pius V whose aim seemed to be the removal of all rude or forceful language from the mass.

This phrase became "Go, you are sent forth." in the new translation which I find to be somewhat closer (though not direct enough to my taste) to the original Klingonese.

32 posted on 11/26/2011 8:23:18 AM PST by Oratam
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To: grellis

Our cantor used to cut off the last of the Gloria at the Mass with a “children’s” choir because she said it was too long.

I stopped her one Sunday and said that I love her singing voice but I was disappointed that she cut off the end of the prayer.

I told her, “It’s a prayer of the Mass, not a performance by the choir, please sing it all.”

Sad too that this information didn’t come from the priest.


33 posted on 11/26/2011 3:18:47 PM PST by Jvette
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To: ArrogantBustard

Before the Council of Trent, the Mass was celebrated in Klingonese ...

You are bad ROFL


34 posted on 11/26/2011 6:15:11 PM PST by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: Cicero

For a time you will see the complaints brought up, but over time, it is hoped, this will go away.


35 posted on 11/27/2011 3:21:18 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: SeekAndFind
I personally belong to neither camp.
I find the new translations pedantic. It makes the Church sound “elitist”, not in touch with it's followers.

What's the point of having mass in the “local” language if you are just going to have literal translations of the Latin text.

English is an evolving and modern language. Latin is an obscure and archaic language.

Doesn't the church want to keep and increase it's membership? The average person does not want to go to church and feel like they can't relate, understand, get involved.

36 posted on 12/02/2011 4:48:23 PM PST by MrBoire
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