Posted on 12/14/2012 8:28:31 AM PST by DaveMSmith
I'd like to pose a question to the defenders of the three 'person' Trinity:
Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:34 Then Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I do not know a man?" 35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
Now, if the Holy Spirit were a person, would this Scripture not indicate He is Jesus' Father, not Jehovah?
Ping
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are consubstantial or “of one being” or “one in being.”
Your selective bolding notwithstanding.
I believe God is one, in whom is the Divine Trinity, and He is the Lord God the Savior Jesus Christ.
1 and 1 and 1 Makes One. A meditation on the Solemnity of the Holy Trinity
The Trinity: Three Persons in One Nature
Essays for Lent: The Trinity
Pope to theologians: focus on the Trinity
Defend the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity! [Catholic caucus]
Hold Fast to the Confession of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit [Catholic Caucus]
[Ecumenical] Lent through Eastertide - Divine Mercy Diary Exerpts: The Holy Trinity
One God, Three Equal Persons: St. Gregory of Nazianzus {Ecumenical Thread}
Radio Replies Second Volume - The Holy Trinity
The Blessed Trinity {Ecumenical}
A Mystery for Eternity (Reflection on the Solemnity of the Most Holy Trinity)
On the Trinity (Angelus Address from 5/30/2010)
Mystery of the Trinity
The Trinity: More Than Just Doctrine
Origen on the Trinity: A Man Ahead of His Time
Why Mormon Baptism Is Invalid: Sect´s Concept of the Trinity Differs from Christian Notion
Radio Replies First Volume - The Holy Trinity
‘We live to love and be loved,’ teaches Pope while reflecting on Trinity (absolutely beautiful!)
Deathbed Request: 'Tell me About the Trinity’
Catholic Doctrine on the Holy Trinity
The Most Holy Trinity
What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Trinity [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
The Holy Trinity (excerpt from the Light of Faith by St. Thomas Aquinas)
The Concept of the Most Holy Trinity - The Relationship between the Three Persons in One God
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 3: God and the Holy Trinity
Sheed on the Trinity (Catholic Caucus)
The Father as the Source of the Whole Trinity - Greek and Latin Traditions About the Filioque
Trinity Facts
The Real Trinity
We believe in one only God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Brief Reflections on the Trinity, the Canon of Scripture, and the Protestant idea of Sola Scriptura
Why Do We Believe in the Trinity?
The Holy Trinity
Trinity Sunday (and the Trinity season)
Trinitarian Mystery
HaSheeloosh HaKadosh: The Holy Trinity
MARY’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY
The Divine Trinity
The Holy Spirit is whose Spirit? God’s?
What do you really want with this post?
We pray to the Lord alone, not to the Father in the name of the Son for the Holy Spirit to come to us -- that's crazy talk.
“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves ... For such are FALSE apostles, DECEITFUL workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.” (Matthew 7:15; 2nd Corinthians 11:13).
Cultic Swedenborgianism Spam
Why don’t you address the question in the OP rather than post your stalking ‘spam’?
“Why don’t you address the question in the OP rather than post your stalking ‘spam’?”
You assume I have a question for you. I do not. You are in a cult. I am posting to warn others, who may not realize what you are doing.
You post heresies here to cast aspersions on Christianity.
As long as FR allows you to do so, I will point out you are posting a heresy to warn others that you are not posting Biblical truth.
Carry on with the cult stuff.
IF this is what you believe, why do you say the Holy Spirit is a separate entity?
I did’t say that. The Holy Spirit (breath) is the Divine Proceeding (action) of the Lord. Jehovah is Jesus’ Father through His Proceeding of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is "sent" by the Father and Son, as he also "proceeds" from them. For this reason he is called "the Spirit of the Father" (e.g., Mt. 10:20; 1 Cor 2:11; also Jn 15:26), but also "the Spirit of the Son" (Gal 4:6), or "the Spirit of Jesus" (Acts 16:7), since it is Jesus himself that sends him (cf. Jn 15:26). Therefore the Latin Church professes that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (qui a Patre Filioque procedit) while the Orthodox Churches profess from the Father through the Son. He proceeds "by way of will," "in the manner of love" (per modum amoris).Thanks for your reply...
Pope John Paul II
Did you know that the words 'breath of life' as used in Genesis 2 mean 'soul'? Now of course each soul has a spirit intellect... meaning it is not a flesh physical gray matter called in flesh a brain? So who else separates their intellect from their body? Why then the need to make the Holy Spirit a separate entity from the Heavenly Father.... Christ was foretold in Isaiah to be called Emmanuel.... which means God with us. Hebrews 2:14 tells why.
The Apostle Paul would probably be considered a blasphemer by many Trinitarians today, because in his greetings to the churches he neglected to mention the Holy Spirit. In his introduction to the Romans, he represents himself as an apostle of God the Father and Jesus Christ, but nothing is said about any third person.
He also neglects to mention the Holy Spirit in the greetings of the rest of his letters. His standard greeting is: “Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ” (I Cor. 1:3). The same greeting is repeated in II Corinthians 1:2, Galatians 1:3, Ephesians 1:2, Philippians 1:2, Colossians 1:2, I Thessalonians 1:1, II Thessalonians 1:2, I Timothy 1:2, Titus 1:4, and Philemon 1:3.
All of these greetings are without variation — the Holy Spirit is consistently left out (a great oversight— indeed blasphemy, provided the Trinity doctrine is correct).
Only in II Corinthians 13:14 is the Holy Spirit mentioned with God and Jesus and there only in connection with communion or fellowship. The Holy Spirit is not the third member of the Godhead.
The Hebrew word for “God” used in Genesis 1:1 and 26 is Elohim. Elohim is plural in form. Though this word taken by itself does not prove that there are two beings in the Godhead, it does allow for the plurality that is clearly indicated in other parts of the Bible.
By what we can understand from the rest of the Bible, this word Elohim can act like our English words “family,” “group,” “church,” or “crowd.” These words are often regarded as singular and take a singular verb form, but they all contain more than one member.
The Apostle Paul exemplifies this for us in I Corinthians 12:20. Speaking about the Church he says: “But now are they many members, yet but one body.”
God is a family. There presently are two members in that God family, God the Father — the Head of the family, the Lawgiver — and Jesus Christ the Son — the Savior. But the word Elohim is not just dual. There is a dual number in Hebrew, but this would have to be Elohaim. The God family, however, is destined to be truly plural — to have many members. And this is what the word Elohim describes and allows for.
Belief in a Trinity clouds the real purpose that God has in store for mankind. If we are taught that God is a closed Trinity of three persons, we lose sight of the fact that God's real purpose is to create many more members of the God family.
Look at the creation account in Genesis 1: God created fish after the fish kind, birds after the bird kind, and animals after the animal kind. But in verse 26 God made man — not after any of the animal kinds, but after the God kind — in God's image and God's likeness. “And God [Hebrew, Elohim] said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
God created man in His own image. Man is greater than the rest of the creation, because God gave him mind power. He has dominion over all the creatures. Man is not an animal. He was created in the image of God — after the God kind.
The Apostle John understood God's plans for mankind. Notice what he wrote in I John 3:1:
“Behold, what manner of love the Father [here is the family relationship — not a closed trinity] hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we [already] the [begotten] sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
Jesus Christ, the One who was the God of the Old Testament, the Creator God, became flesh, died and was resurrected as a part of God's plan to make man God. Jesus Christ is not to be the only son of God. He is the only born Son now, but as John wrote, “when he shall appear, we shall be like him.” We are begotten sons now, and will be born sons of God at the resurrection.
It is clearly God's plan to bring many sons into His family. “For it became him [God the Father], for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing MANY sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation [Jesus Christ] perfect through sufferings” (Heb. 2:10).
The pages of the Bible are filled with this — God's great purpose for man. And yet the majority of this world's Christians are blinded to this central biblical truth. Why? Because Satan has deceived the whole world (Rev. 12:9). God is not a closed Trinity, He is a family — a family in which you can become a member.
Why has Satan palmed off the doctrine of the Trinity on the world? Because he doesn't want you to rule in his place! Satan was originally created to carry out God's rule on earth. But, he refused to serve the Creator and even fomented a rebellion to dislodge God from His position as Ruler over the whole universe (Ezek. 28:11-19; Isa. 14:12-14). A third of the angels united with Lucifer in that rebellion and were cast back down to this earth with him (Rev. 12:3-4) — having forever disqualified themselves and Satan from ruling in the government of God. However, Satan and his demonic cohorts remain in office until Christ actually returns.
Yet being disqualified, they do not want anyone else ever to take their place. For that reason, during nearly 6000 years of man, they have tried to hide from all the world the breathtaking truth of God. If they can make you believe in the Trinity, you will be deceived into thinking that the Godhead consists of only three persons. You would then never in your wildest dreams ever imagine that you were created to be born into the God family — to actually have a part in ruling this earth!
Satan wants you to think that God is a limited Trinity — not a growing family or Kingdom into which we may, through the grace of God, enter.
There you have it. That is the truth about the Trinity. God's family isn't closed to mankind as Satan would have you believe.
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Dave, this battle over the Trinity has been going on for over 1700 years so it wont be settled here on this forum. Most here are fixed in their beliefs and are not open to considering anything else contrary to what they have been taught. Time will tell who was right or wrong. Brave post though.
Merry Christmas.
Seek and yea shall find.....
Correction: just pretzel logic
"Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth Me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father? Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in Me, He doth the works. Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" John 14:9-11
Two additional passages you should slowly, carefully and repeatedly ponder.
"Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-21
"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16
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