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Site Provides Evidence For Ancient Comet Explosion (Topper - SC)
The News Tribune ^ | 10-7-2007 | Joey Holleman

Posted on 10/07/2007 10:07:52 PM PDT by blam

Site provides evidence for ancient comet explosion

JOEY HOLLEMAN; McClatchy Newspapers Published: October 7th, 2007 01:00 AM

COLUMBIA, S.C. – For the second time in less than a decade, a South Carolina river bluff holds evidence pointing to a theory with history-rewriting potential. Microscopic soil particles from the Topper site near Allendale might hold a tiny key to a big theory: that comet-caused explosions wiped out the mammoths and mastodons, prompted the last ice age and decimated the first human culture in North America about 12,900 years ago.

The comet theory first began generating a buzz at an international meeting of geophysicists in Mexico in May. The findings were published this month in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. They’re about to go mainstream, with a National Geographic Channel segment today. The History Channel will film for a future show at Topper this week.

“People are fascinated by it,” said Allen West, an Arizona geophysicist and one of the leaders of the comet team, who’s speaking Wednesday at USC. “It has diamonds and giant elephants and Indians. Any new catastrophe theory that comes along gets plenty of attention.”

The new theory holds that a comet broke apart in the atmosphere above what is now eastern North America, producing explosions and wildfires as the pieces smashed into the surface.

Scientists, led by Richard Firestone of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in Berkeley, Calif., took soil samples from throughout North America and in Belgium. In a layer dating to about 12,900 years ago, they found high levels of iridium, nanodiamonds and glasslike carbon that could have been caused by a comet explosion and subsequent fires.

The Topper site, on the Savannah River, provided compelling evidence, in part because of earlier findings by Al Goodyear of the S.C. Institute of Archaeology and Anthropology at USC.

Goodyear drew international attention in 2004 when stone points found at Topper that apparently were sharpened by humans (Clovis points) were carbon dated to nearly 50,000 years ago. That put human beings in North America thousands of years earlier than thought. For generations, scientists have thought the first humans arrived 13,000 years ago via a land bridge from Asia.

Goodyear’s work at Topper, along with similar finds in Brazil and Chile, prompted scientific reconsideration of when humans arrived in North America. It also led to skepticism by scientists who didn’t buy Goodyear’s theory. In that regard, he found kindred spirits in the comet group.

“This is a pretty wild theory,” Goodyear said with a chuckle. “I’m glad I’m not doing this one.”

He welcomed West to dig at Topper. At the same depth as Topper’s undeniable Clovis artifacts, West found high concentrations of iridium, nanodiamonds and glasslike carbon.

West’s findings prompted Goodyear to do his own study on the disappearance of Clovis points. These stone tools are found throughout North America only in soil dating back about 13,000 years or more.

Not long after that, a different style of points began showing up from people scientists have dubbed the Redstone culture.

Goodyear’s recent study found there were four times as many Clovis points as Redstone points at similar sites. That would indicate a huge population drop from the Clovis to Redstone cultures, possibly caused by some natural catastrophe.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: ancient; archaeology; catastrophism; clovis; clovisculture; comet; explosion; extinction; godsgravesglyphs; lithics; mammoths; mastodons; redstone; redstoneculture; topper

1 posted on 10/07/2007 10:07:56 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
GGG & Catastrophism Ping.

Ice Age Ends Smashingly: Did A Comet Blow Up Over Eastern Canada? (Carolina Bays)

2 posted on 10/07/2007 10:10:48 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping to you.


3 posted on 10/07/2007 10:11:00 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: blam
Topper Site Image Gallery
4 posted on 10/07/2007 10:14:08 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

Good article. Thanks.


5 posted on 10/07/2007 10:14:46 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: blam

Am I the only one to notice “Goodyear” and “Firestone” here ?


6 posted on 10/07/2007 10:15:26 PM PDT by prov1813man (While the one you despise and ridicule works to protect you, those you embrace work to destroy you)
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To: blam

Hot damn! Things are FINALLY shaking up paleontology. Maybe things like Skull Cave in Calaveras, CA and the taiga remains in Alaska and Siberia will finally get a look at.


7 posted on 10/07/2007 10:21:30 PM PDT by tanuki (u)
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To: tanuki
Maybe things like Skull Cave in Calaveras, CA and the taiga remains in Alaska and Siberia will finally get a look at.

I do California archaeology.

Tell me about Skull Cave, and why it should be looked at again.

8 posted on 10/07/2007 10:25:14 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman
Tell me about Skull Cave, and why it should be looked at again.

You mean the Hardy Boys had it wrong??

Seriously, what is Skull Cave? That article from Archaeology about syphilis being a New World mutation of yaws was an eye-opener; I'm beginning to develop some interest in archaeology, after too many years of ignoring it.

Cheers!

9 posted on 10/07/2007 10:33:30 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers
Skull Cave

Abstract

In February 1866, workers found a human skull deep in a mine in Calaveras County, California, believed at first to be of Pliocene age. It was passed through several hands before reaching J. D. Whitney, State Geologist of California and Professor of Geology at Harvard University.
While some scientists accepted it on face value, other scientists and the public press refused to believe it and even ridiculed the claim. Some believed it was a "plant," while others had faith in the reports of the miners, which led to a long controversy.
Apparently two skulls became confused in transmission from one person to another, but in the end they were identified as fossilized Indian skulls of modern type, and it was finally admitted that the one taken from the mine was "planted" as a joke.

10 posted on 10/07/2007 10:38:58 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam; ConservativeMind; 75thOVI; AFPhys; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aristotleman; ...
Thanks for the pings.
 
Catastrophism
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·

11 posted on 10/07/2007 10:49:43 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, October 5, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes:
Flood, Fire, and Famine
in the History of Civilization

by Richard Firestone,
Allen West, and
Simon Warwick-Smith


12 posted on 10/07/2007 10:50:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, October 5, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks Blam and ConservativeMind.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

The quarterly FReepathon is underway.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


13 posted on 10/07/2007 10:52:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, October 5, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Coyoteman

You probably have more firsthand knowledge than me, but my understanding about Skull Cave is that there are geological depositions there that are about as old as the original Bering Strait hypothesis, about 10,000 yrs. before present. From what I’ve heard, it seems to resemble mass depositions of prehistoric creatures in other areas that seem to have been caused by some type of catastrophic event.


14 posted on 10/07/2007 10:53:19 PM PDT by tanuki (u)
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To: Coyoteman

Duh, maybe I should have stated that there seem to be many human remains of comparable age as the depositions. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a full examination of the cave.


15 posted on 10/07/2007 10:58:35 PM PDT by tanuki (u)
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To: Coyoteman
Tell me about Skull Cave, and why it should be looked at again.

For buried treasure! Maybe that's where Long John Silver hid his loot.


16 posted on 10/07/2007 11:02:55 PM PDT by Hacksaw (Appalachian by the grace of God - Montani Semper Liberi)
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To: blam

“wiped out the mammoths and mastodons, prompted the last ice age and decimated the first human culture in North America about 12,900 years ago.”

an aspect of this I haven’t seen spelled out in any arcticle is the implication that the paleo-indians were able to expand without any traces of other cultures/genetics being assimilated because the preceding cultures were dead or otherwise severely depleted, numbers-wise.

In fact the theorized event may have enabled paleo-indian expansion in the first place.


17 posted on 10/07/2007 11:04:20 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: tanuki

That thin black mat is identical in looks to what I see on the sides of many of the older roads here in Missouri, where they cut into the sides of hills.

I have a feeling that this ‘mat’ is likely predominant across the entire northern continent of America.

Just look at the artificial cliffs where hillsides have been cut along the roads you travel, and I bet you’ll see them as well.


18 posted on 10/07/2007 11:09:26 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (((Wi arr mi kidz faling skool ?)))
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To: UCANSEE2

Thanks for the info. I’m sure that there’s traces of this in California, where I am. This will be pretty awe-inspiring if/when somebody maps it.


19 posted on 10/07/2007 11:14:46 PM PDT by tanuki (u)
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To: WoofDog123
"An aspect of this I haven’t seen spelled out in any arcticle is the implication that the paleo-indians were able to expand without any traces of other cultures/genetics being assimilated because the preceding cultures were dead or otherwise severely depleted, numbers-wise."

You mean something like this:

Vintage Skulls

"The oldest human remains found in the Americas were recently "discovered" in the storeroom of Mexico's National Museum of Anthropology. Found in central Mexico in 1959, the five skulls were radiocarbon dated by a team of researchers from the United Kingdom and Mexico and found to be 13,000 years old. They pre-date the Clovis culture by a couple thousand years, adding to the growing evidence against the Clovis-first model for the first peopling of the Americas."

"Of additional significance is the shape of the skulls, which are described as long and narrow, very unlike those of modern Native Americans.

20 posted on 10/08/2007 4:13:43 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: prov1813man
"Am I the only one to notice “Goodyear” and “Firestone” here ?"

Yup...I was 'holding-out' for Michelin.

21 posted on 10/08/2007 4:16:04 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam; neverdem; sionnsar; cogitator
So, we now have fairly good proof of a comet impact 12,900 years ago over SC, one 6600 +/- few years ago a little east of Madagascar (that is likely to have created the hundreds of “flood” stories common across Mesopotamia, Australia, Indian, Africa,n and the MidEast/Greek cultures) and one over Siberia 100 years ago.

A connection? Or are we overdue for the next 6,000 year hit?

22 posted on 10/08/2007 7:36:30 AM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: blam
Goodyear drew international attention in 2004 when stone points found at Topper that apparently were sharpened by humans (Clovis points) were carbon dated to nearly 50,000 years ago.

How does one carbon date a stone point?
23 posted on 10/08/2007 7:38:47 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: There is no god named Allah, and Muhammed is a false prophet)
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To: blam

Blam I have seen posted in one place or another reports from the late 1700s to early 1800’s from explorers in Siberia and Alaska. They told of finding huge pile of ancient bones. They didn’t know what kind of bones they were but the enormity of the deposits were such as to make them think something truely catestrophic caused them all to die at once.

Have you seen those articles.


24 posted on 10/08/2007 10:56:18 AM PDT by ckilmer
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To: blam
From Moratto's California Archaeology Academic Press, 1984), pages 38, 292:

...highly permineralized human bones found embedded in the travertine rock of Calaveras County caves--once thought to be of Pliocene age and later estimated to be 12,000 years old--are, on present evidence, no more than 3000 to 4000 years old. ...

The most controversial discovery was the "Calaveras skull," a partial cranium found in 1866 at a depth of 40 m in a mine shaft penetrating Eocene gravels and lava beds on Bald Hill near Angels Camp, Calaveras County. The bones were fossilized and heavily encrusted with calcareous material, supporting the notion of great antiquity. The appelation of "Auriferous Gravel Man" persisted through 4 decades, until Ales Hrdlicka showed conclusively that the Calaveras skull was that of a recent Indian, and Sinclair discredited the story of its discovery.

In 1880 the respected geologist J. D. Whitney published a report culminating a long study of Sierran gold-bearing strata as related to Early Man. Whitney admitted the Calaveras skull, oral testimony from miners, and affidavits from "expert witnesses" as evidence that the remains of humans and extinct fauna were coeval with Tertiary gravels. Artifacts often identical to those made by historic Indians, reportedly found in auriferous deposits, were taken to support Whitney's belief that little or no cultural change had occurred in California since Pliocene times.

Reaction to Whitney's case for "Eocene Man" tended to be negative. Critical reviews by Holmes and Sinclair exposed the problems of using testimony and the like as scientific evidence; they offered no support for the idea of Tertiary archaeology. Nonetheless, Whitney's contentions and the reactions to them were important milestones. As Warren has observed, they mark the emergence of California archaeology [references omitted].


25 posted on 10/08/2007 11:21:12 AM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: blam

There is He3 in extraterrestrial buckyballs for those who think going to the moon for He3 is reason enough for going to the moon.


26 posted on 10/08/2007 11:24:27 AM PDT by RightWhale (50 years later we're still sitting on the ground)
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To: prov1813man; Coyoteman
Am I the only one to notice “Goodyear” and “Firestone” here ?

Nope, Here's one I got a chuckle out of that I had overlooked until I went back and reread some posts:

Yup, I mislabeled the pdf file with the wrong tire maker; it should be Firestone et al. (2007), not Goodyear.

27 posted on 10/08/2007 12:01:00 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (ABCNNBCBS: An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.)
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To: ckilmer
...I have seen posted in one place or another reports from the late 1700s to early 1800’s from explorers in Siberia and Alaska.

The event was WORLDWIDE?

28 posted on 10/08/2007 12:10:37 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (ABCNNBCBS: An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.)
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To: blam
that comet-caused explosions wiped out the mammoths and mastodons, prompted the last ice age Perhaps the Younger Dryas, but not the last ice age. And another theory has the fast spreading clovis point among the men inhabiting the Americas was responsible for wiping out all the large animals. Also at least on researcher traced the clovis point design back to Europe.
29 posted on 10/08/2007 3:57:51 PM PDT by GregoryFul (is a bear a bomb in a bull?)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Yikes, it looks like we are getting hit fairly frequently by these earth shaking things.


30 posted on 10/08/2007 4:00:31 PM PDT by GregoryFul (is a bear a bomb in a bull?)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
"A connection? Or are we overdue for the next 6,000 year hit?"

Over due.

A cosmic trail with destruction in its wake

"There is sufficient evidence, he says, to indicate that collisions happen within centuries and millenniums rather than millions and billions of years, with multiple encounters more likely than sceptics claim."

31 posted on 10/08/2007 4:29:25 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: ckilmer
"Have you seen those articles."

Don't recall those.

32 posted on 10/08/2007 4:31:32 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: GregoryFul
Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?)
33 posted on 10/08/2007 4:36:08 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: GregoryFul

Does anyone think this may be related:

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FrozenMammoths6.html


34 posted on 10/09/2007 3:23:15 AM PDT by DavemeisterP
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To: DavemeisterP

Didn’t mention my theory of avalanche followed by climate change. There have been herds of animals apparently buried in snowstorms and then frozen for subsequent millennium. Bones of the larger, mature animals have been found piled underneath bones of the lighter young animals. Snow, at least many tens of feet deep, seems a good explanation.


35 posted on 10/09/2007 7:36:16 PM PDT by GregoryFul (is a bear a bomb in a bull?)
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To: GregoryFul

Have you even read the pages connected to the link, or did you just read the first and then make your own conclusion? I stopped somewhere around the 65th e-page, and what I read had nothing to do with an avalance. It had quite a bit more to do with ‘The Day After Tomorrow’ and your near futeur.


36 posted on 10/10/2007 6:10:45 PM PDT by DavemeisterP
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To: DavemeisterP

What, you don’t think my theory is plausible? I said I hadn’t seen it mentioned, as you have also found.


37 posted on 10/10/2007 6:13:43 PM PDT by GregoryFul (is a bear a bomb in a bull?)
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To: GregoryFul

In the article, most of the instances of suffocated, crushed, animals happened in the wide open plains of Arctic Circle.


38 posted on 10/11/2007 2:24:00 PM PDT by DavemeisterP
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To: Kozak
How does one carbon date a stone point?

From the organic matter in the soil in which it lies. All that shows, though, is the time when it arrived at that location. Not an exact science by any means.

39 posted on 12/18/2008 3:21:02 PM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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