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Was There a Trojan War?
Archaeology ^ | May/June 2004 | Manfred Korfmann

Posted on 07/29/2004 11:43:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

A spectacular result of the new excavations has been the verification of the existence of a lower settlement from the seventeenth to the early twelfth centuries B.C. (Troy levels VI/VIIa) outside and south and east of the citadel. As magnetometer surveys and seven excavations undertaken since 1993 have shown, this lower city was surrounded at least in the thirteenth century by an impressive U-shaped fortification ditch, approximately eleven and a half feet wide and six and a half feet deep, hewn into the limestone bedrock. Conclusions about the existence and quality of buildings within the confines of the ditch have been drawn on the basis of several trial trenches and excavations, some of them covering a very large surface area. The layout of the city was confirmed by an intensive and systematic pottery survey in 2003. We have also discovered a cemetery outside the ditch to the south. The most recent excavations have determined that Troy, which now covers about seventy-five acres, is about fifteen times larger than previously thought.

(Excerpt) Read more at archaeology.org ...


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Education; Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous; Reference; Religion; Science; Travel; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: archaeology; blegen; dorpfeld; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; trojan; trojanwar; troy; zangger
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1 posted on 07/29/2004 11:43:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: SunkenCiv

interesting


2 posted on 07/29/2004 11:45:34 PM PDT by GeronL (geocities.com/geronl is back)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; farmfriend; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ValerieUSA; Adder
Evidence from Homer
by Joachim Latacz
The Greek aggressors who attack Troy in the Iliad are called consistently "Achaiói" (which was in the Late Bronze Age "Achaiwói") or "Danaói," but at the time the Iliad was composed in the eighth century B.C., there were no such names for the Greek people. The "Achaiwói" of the Iliad must, therefore, be identical with the inhabitants of Ahhiyawa, a western kingdom implicated in Hittite documents of the fourteenth and thirteenth centuries B.C. in attacks on the western Anatolian coast. (The "Danaói" of the Iliad, on the other hand, must be identical with the inhabitants of "Danaya," a northern kingdom described in Egyptian documents of the fourteenth century B.C.)... Homer's Iliad has in all probability preserved remnants of the memory of one or more acts of aggression perpetrated by the Ahhiyawans against Wilusa in the thirteenth century B.C.
Evidence from Hittite Records
by J.D. Hawkins
The kingdom of Arzawa, located roughly in western Anatolia, was a threat to the Hittites throughout most of the fourteenth century B.C. but toward the end of that period was decisively defeated and broken up into provinces. The treaties concluded with the vassal rulers of these provinces are known among the Hittite texts. Recent inscription readings have allowed scholars to locate the two main Arzawa lands in the central-west part of Turkey, extending from the inland plateau to the coast. The recent recognition that another kingdom, which the Hittites referred to as the Lukka lands, occupied what is now southwest Turkey thus leaves only northwest Anatolia as yet-to-be-filled space on the Hittite map... What is now known of the geography of western Anatolia makes it clear that there could be no room on the mainland for the kingdom of Ahhiyawa. Furthermore, the references to the political interests of Ahhiyawa on the west coast mesh well with increasing archaeological evidence for Mycenaean Greeks in the area, so that it is now widely accepted that "Ahhiyawa" is indeed the Hittite designation for this culture.
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3 posted on 07/29/2004 11:46:35 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: GeronL
Thanks!
4 posted on 07/29/2004 11:47:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: All
This is the series on which the book was based (not the other way around), and it's on DVD at last:

In Search of the Trojan War In Search of the Trojan War
by Michael Wood


5 posted on 07/29/2004 11:52:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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The Fact and Fiction Surrounding the
4000 Year Old Ancient City

Turkish Embassy
Troy existed more than 4000 years as the center of ancient civilization. For many years, it was commonly believed that Troy was a myth, the product of fertile imaginations such as Homer’s, who made Hector, Helen, Achilles, Paris, Agamemnon and Priam so famous. That changed in 1822, when the city’s remains were discovered by Charles Mclaren.
A History of Ancient Greece
by Lewis Jewsbury
Ragz International
1992
In 1822 Charles McLaren suggested that this was the site of Homeric Troy, but for the next 50 years his suggestion received little attention from classical scholars, most of whom regarded the Trojan legend as a mere fictional creation based on myth, not history. The German archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann deserves full credit for adopting McLaren's identification and demonstrating to the world that it was correct.
Calvert first told Schliemann about it. For example:
The Future of the Past: Archaeology in the 21st Century The Future of the Past:
Archaeology in the 21st Century

by Eberhard Zangger

Schliemann... did not discover Troy either. During his visit to the region, he did search for the remains of the ancient city, but in the wrong place; in fact, precisely where the majority of people at that time expecte Troy to be. Schliemann was about to leave the area empty-handed, but he missed his steamer. While he was waiting, he met the British consul for the area, Frank Calvert. Calvert told him about the theory of a Scottish geologist called Charles MacLaren, who maintained that Troy lay on a hill called Hisarlik. Calvert, who, by chance, happened to own part of this hill... After talking to Calvert, Schliemann left the Troas without, apparently, even having seen the Hisarlik mound. [pp 17-18]

6 posted on 08/27/2004 11:35:45 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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The presumed era of the Trojan War by Jorn Barger

7 posted on 10/31/2004 7:36:10 AM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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Ein neuer Kampf um Troia: Archäologie in der Krise
reviewed by Edmund F. Bloedow
Bryn Mawr Classical Review 95.02.18
Ein neuer Kampf um Troia: Archäologie in der Krise by Eberhard Zangger
In such a wide-ranging study, however, one can scarcely expect one individual to be able to assess all the primary evidence. Indeed, it soon becomes evident that Z.'s conclusions are based almost exclusively on secondary, and at times even tertiary, sources. And by casting his net very wide, he hauls in a multifarious medley, whose quality varies enormously. For instance, he brings to the debate for the first time, in particular, Plato's Timaeus and Critias, as well as Dictys Cretensis and Dares Phrygius, and other Mediaeval Homeric 'romances' (68-74). For Z., the accounts of the Sea Peoples, contemporary documents, the Homeric epics, ancient authors, legends, extra-Homeric literature, all compete essentially on a level playing field: broadly speaking, they can all be approached as "half true and half untrue" (74-75).

8 posted on 10/31/2004 2:50:34 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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The Trojan War Era
Jorn Barger
October 2001 (revised Dec2002)
http://www.robotwisdom.com/science/troy.html


9 posted on 11/26/2004 7:25:59 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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bttt with a few related GGG / FR topics:

Amazon Warrior Women
PBS ^ | Current | PBS
Posted on 08/04/2004 8:51:53 PM PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1185293/posts

The Argonaut Epos and Bronze Age Economic History
Economics Department, City College of New York
Revised May 14, 1999 | Morris Silver
Posted on 08/25/2004 10:30:51 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1199756/posts

Inscription in Carian and Greek
Anistoriton ^ | 27 Dec. 1997 | (editors)
Posted on 07/17/2004 6:20:07 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1173453/posts?page=10#10

Non-Attic Characters
University of California, Irvine, Thesaurus Linguae Graecae
September 7 2003 (rev 9-28-2003) | Nick Nicholas
Posted on 07/18/2004 6:43:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1173901/posts

So Who Is Buried in Midas's Tomb?
NYT ^ | 12/25/2001 | JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
Posted on 12/24/2001 10:12:01 PM PST by a_Turk
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/596541/posts

The Truth About An Epic Tale Of Love, War And Greed (Troy)
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 3-24-2004
Posted on 03/25/2004 12:03:11 PM PST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1105131/posts


10 posted on 12/19/2004 5:43:44 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: blam
February bump.
ANE Digest Number 357
From: Banyai Michael Leonberg
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998
There is an Akagamunas (Akaiamunas?), apparently the Achaian king, appearing in the hethite correspondence. He was tentatively equivalated, I think by Forrer, with the homeric Agamemnon. Most of Forrers equation are today in low esteem, even if his name is still among the leader hethitologists. There are no objective grounds against this very equation but only natural skepsis. Should one hold his equation, one gets Akaiamunas/Akaiamenon >> Agamemnon. This as Idomeneos and Menelaos (variant of the lawagetas) would thus be just titles, no personal names.
more about these affinities, dating back to the 1920s or 1930s, to be found recounted in Michael Wood's book and the old BBC series.

11 posted on 02/01/2005 10:36:44 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Ted "Kids, I Sunk the Honey" Kennedy is just a drunk who's never held a job (or had to).)
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To: SunkenCiv

Current events again? (LOL)


12 posted on 02/01/2005 11:06:06 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
I do wonder why the historicity of some of the characters used by Homer should generate such resistance in certain quarters. But hey...

TITLE

13 posted on 02/01/2005 10:04:59 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Ted "Kids, I Sunk the Honey" Kennedy is just a drunk who's never held a job (or had to).)
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Barger's vanished site, courtesy the Wayback Machine
14 posted on 02/01/2005 10:08:10 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Ted "Kids, I Sunk the Honey" Kennedy is just a drunk who's never held a job (or had to).)
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To: SunkenCiv

I wonder about the similarity between the TRojan war and the other, older, ARyanic epic, the Mahabharata.


15 posted on 02/03/2005 5:23:43 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: Cronos
Professor Schliemann had already begun to suspect that the stories of the Trojan War were limned upon an Atlantean background. While excavating in Troy he had found, in the treasure house of Priam, an exquisitely wrought bronze vase bearing the inscription: From King Chronos [no relation] of Atlantis. Ten years later, while wandering through the Louvre in Paris, he came across its mate, which had come to light in Tiahuanaca, on the South American continent. If, before he died in 1890, this intuitive man had been fortunate enough to read Isis Unveiled and The Secret Doctrine, he might have learned that the Trojan War coincided with the cycle of events described in the Mahabharata, and that Homer's Iliad was but a copy of the Ramayana.

But seriously... I don't see it. While I don't reject the idea that the Mahabharata records (in its way) a real war of some duration, it was geographically and temporally in a very different place. The Trojan War has had its setting changed by different modern writers, including Edo Nyland's (borrowed) idea that it took place in the Scottish archipelago.
16 posted on 02/03/2005 7:33:56 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Ted "Kids, I Sunk the Honey" Kennedy is just a drunk who's never held a job (or had to).)
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To: Cronos
more related...
The Mahabharata: A Family Chart
by Gloria L. Floren
MiraCosta College
BHARATA: from "Bharat"=Indian; King Bharata. KRISHNA: Avatar of Vishnu, god of preservation who takes on human form when chaos threatens; serves as charioteer for Arjuna and delivers the Bhagavad Gita. SHIVA: God of destruction (also creation and preservation); provides the ultimate weapon to Arjuna. GANESHA: elephant-headed Hindu god of education and learning, knowledge and wisdom, literature and the fine arts, Lord of success, prosperity, and peace. and "good luck"; scribe for the Mahabharata, recited by Vyasa: "Listen to stories: It’s always pleasant and sometimes it improves you." VYASA: Krishna Dvaipaiyana Vyasa, 4th century B.C.E. Written text attributed to him. (Vyasa means "collector.") According to legend, Vyasa and Ganesha worked together to get the text fully recited and written down; the epic is said to have been originally written with a tusk. HISTORY: The events (the war) in the epic is based on a historical event, just as the Iliad portrays an actual war (Trojan War). The date of the Bharata war has been variously set at 5000 BCE, 3000 BCE, 3138 BCE (the Indus Valley Civilization dates are c. 3200-2000 BCE). ORAL TRADITION: It is believed that all the ancient stories, songs, and epics were preserved through recitation, performance, storytelling (in the oral tradition) before the technology of writing was invented.


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17 posted on 02/03/2005 7:37:07 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Ted "Kids, I Sunk the Honey" Kennedy is just a drunk who's never held a job (or had to).)
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To: SunkenCiv

I dunnno -- both epics were written down centuries, maybe millenia after they actually occured. The geographical location could have REALLY been anywhere and the combatants anyone. Just an epic battle -- the strange similarities


18 posted on 02/03/2005 5:52:42 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: Cronos
just a bump, with a title I found while looking for something else related to the Trojan War:

Collapse Of The Bronze Age Collapse Of The Bronze Age
by Manuel Robbins
homepage

(I haven't looked into this title, dunno what the author's take is)
19 posted on 04/18/2005 9:56:38 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Monday, April 11, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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Russia displays art seized from Germany
by United Press International
Published May 17, 2005
http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20050517-040317-6544r


20 posted on 05/18/2005 10:20:25 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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Atlantis as Crete or Thera
Andrew Collins
http://andrewcollins.com/page/interactive/crete.htm

"Plato's Atlantic island could not have been Crete, Thera or any other location in the Aegean. Nor could it have been placed on the Turkish mainland in the time-frame of the Thera eruption as has been proposed by at least two authors (James and Zangger) in recent years."

In Search of the Real Troy
Saudi Aramco World | January/February 2005 Volume 56, Number 1
Graham Chandler, Photographed by Ergun Cagata
Posted on 02/20/2005 2:33:23 PM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1347422/posts


21 posted on 06/16/2005 11:11:11 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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Arzawa
The House of David (not the vanished religious sect by that name)
circa 2002 | David R Ross
Posted on 11/26/2004 7:32:25 PM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1289143/posts


22 posted on 06/19/2005 11:46:27 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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The Linear B Tablets and Mycenaean Social, Political, and Economic Organization
[Dorians / Achaeans -- their origin?]
Dartmouth College | 1996 | faculty
Posted on 11/28/2004 7:29:26 PM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1290075/posts


23 posted on 07/17/2005 9:27:00 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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"named after Troy King Priam's son Paris"

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=63399

Wednesday, August 03, 2005

A Number Of Works Of Art Unearthed In Parion Ancient City

Published: 8/2/2005

CANAKKALE - Archaeologists unearthed a number of works of art including crowns of a prince or a king in the ancient city of Parion (also known as Parium), near Kemer village in Biga town of northwestern Turkish city of Canakkale.

Ataturk University Department of Archaeology Chairman Prof. Dr. Cevat Basaran, who leads the archaeological excavations in the ancient city, said on Monday that they unearthed four sarcophaguses (a stone coffin bearing sculpture and inscriptions) in the city.

''We opened two of those sarcophaguses. We found two crowns of a prince or a king who was believed to have lived some 2 thousand years ago, two golden coins bearing figure of the sun god and several other pieces of jewelry. Also, we unearthed 150 pieces of works of art during the excavations. All these findings reveal the importance of Parion in ancient times,'' he said.

The ancient city had been founded some 3 thousand years ago, and named after Troy King Priam's son Paris. It had been a significant city with its two commercial ports. There were a number of architectural structures, towers and four temples in the city.

The findings will be exhibited in the Canakkale Museum of Archaeology. Also, the ancient city of Parion is expected to be opened to tourism like famous ancient city of Efes (Ephesus).


24 posted on 08/03/2005 8:18:39 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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Woman may have founded ancient Rome
Telegraph (UK) | 4/22/03 | Bruce Johnston
Posted on 04/24/2003 11:41:53 AM PDT by scouse
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/899581/posts

"a fragment of writing by the Graeco-Sicilian poet Stesichorus (638-555 BC) recounts how a woman named Roma arrived with a Trojan fleet in an idyllic place that could easily be Rome."


25 posted on 08/06/2005 8:34:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: blam; Ernest_at_the_Beach; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother

thanks for this link, over in that Argolid cave topic. The shaved-head women of Sparta came later (so to speak), after the ancestors of the two royal lines of the pederastic kingdom of Sparta overthrew the descendants of Menelaus. :')

Meet Helen of Troy: bald-headed, bare-breasted and bloodthirsty
The face that launched 1,000 ships was no such thing, claims a new book.
By Jonathan Thompson
Published: 09 October 2005http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/news/article318223.ece


26 posted on 10/09/2005 3:58:43 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

27 posted on 02/10/2006 6:28:50 AM PST by SunkenCiv ([singing] Kaboom, kaboom, ya da da da da da, ya da da da da da...)
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· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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28 posted on 11/04/2009 5:31:56 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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