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Ancient Egypt was destroyed by drought, discover Scottish experts
Scotsman, Tall and Handsome Built ^ | Tuesday, August 2, 2011 | Lyndsay Buckland

Posted on 08/04/2011 5:51:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

...the fall of the great Egyptian Old Kingdom may have been helped along by a common problem which remains with us now -- drought... a severe period of drought around 4,200 years ago may have contributed to the demise of the civilisation. Using seismic investigations with sound waves, along with carbon dating of a 100-metre section of sediment from the bed of Lake Tana in Ethiopia, the team were able to look back many thousands of years. They were able to see how water levels in the lake had varied over the past 17,000 years, with the sediment signalling lush periods but also times of drought. Lake Tana -- the source of the Blue Nile river -- flows to the White Nile at Khartoum and eventually to the Nile Delta. ... Historical records have suggested the region was hit by a drought spanning several decades, forcing people to extreme measures with some writings even suggesting people were forced to eat their own children... Dr Bates said they hoped the work would improve understanding of climate change.

(Excerpt) Read more at scotsman.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: africa; bolide; catastrophism; curseofagade; donovancourville; drought; egypt; exodus; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax; godsgravesglyphs; impact; laketana; oldkingdom; paleoclimatology; sahara; scotlandyet; stalactites; stalagmites; titrishoyuk
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Carbon Dating Revision May Rewrite History
Unknown Country
02-Jul-2001
These findings suggested dramatic changes in the amount of radioactive carbon in Earth's atmosphere during the last Ice Age, probably as a result of changes in the strength of the planet's magnetic field. The field shields Earth from the cosmic rays that create carbon-14 in the atmosphere, and this would have altered the levels of the isotope during the past 45,000 years.
Disaster that struck the ancients
Professor Fekri Hassan, from University College London, UK, wanted to solve the mystery, by gathering together scientific clues. His inspiration was the little known tomb in southern Egypt of a regional governor, Ankhtifi. The hieroglyphs there reported "all of Upper Egypt was dying of hunger to such a degree that everyone had come to eating their children". Dismissed as exaggeration and fantasy by most other Egyptologists, Fekri was determined to prove the writings were true and accurate. He also had to find a culprit capable of producing such misery. He studied the meticulous records, kept since the 7th Century, of Nile floods. He was amazed to see that there was a huge variation in the size of the annual Nile floods - the floods that were vital for irrigating the land. But no records existed for 2,200BC. Then came a breakthrough - a new discovery in the hills of neighbouring Israel. Mira Bar-Matthews of the Geological Survey of Israel had found a unique record of past climates, locked in the stalactites and stalagmites of a cave near Tel Aviv. What they show is a sudden and dramatic drop in rainfall, by 20%. It is the largest climate event in 5,000 years. And the date? 2,200 BC.
Comets Tied To Fall Of Empires:
Environmental Calamities
After Cosmic Clashes
Wiped Out Societies

by Robert S. Boyd
Free Press Washington Staff
August 17, 1999
At least five times during the last 6,000 years, major environmental calamities undermined civilizations worldwide. Some researchers say these disasters appear to be linked to collisions with comets or fragments of comets like the one that broke apart and smashed into Jupiter five years ago this summer. The impacts, yielding many megatons of explosive energy, produced vast clouds of smoke and dust that circled the globe for years, dimming the sun, driving down temperatures and sowing hunger, disease and death. The last such global crisis occurred between 530 and 540 -- at the beginning of the Dark Ages in Europe -- when Earth was pummeled by a swarm of cosmic debris.
Meteor clue to end of Middle East civilisations
by Robert Matthews
Science Correspondent
"Studies of satellite images of southern Iraq have revealed a two-mile-wide circular depression which scientists say bears all the hallmarks of an impact crater. If confirmed, it would point to the Middle East being struck by a meteor with the violence equivalent to hundreds of nuclear bombs.

"The catastrophic effect of these could explain the mystery of why so many early cultures went into sudden decline around 2300 BC. They include the demise of the Akkad culture of central Iraq, with its mysterious semi-mythological emperor Sargon; the end of the fifth dynasty of Egypt's Old Kingdom, following the building of the Great Pyramids and the sudden disappearance of hundreds of early settlements in the Holy Land."
4,000-year-old planned community unearthed
Oct 13 2000
"'Evidently, the conception of what was urban in 2500 to 2000 B.C. was not all that different from what is considered urban today,' said Guillermo Algaze, an associate professor of anthropology at the University of California, San Diego, who has been directing the excavation of Titris Hoyuk, a 125-acre walled urban site in the Euphrates River Basin in southeastern Turkey that flourished for a brief time in the third millennium Bronze Age. In its heyday, Titris had about 10,000 residents. Titris was a failure as a city and as a civilization, rising and falling within a 300 year period, never again to be reoccupied. But, said Algaze, Titrus's failure -- probably due to a shifting in trade routes -- is also the key to its appeal to modern archaeologists."
Tuba
Oct 13 2000
"The women in the tomb were highly ornamented. The ibex (goat above) was made of lapis lazuli which was available only in Afghanistan at the time. Evidence amassed thus far by Schwartz and Curvers indicates that Tubaarose as a political and economic center around 2500 BC, with a population of 5,000 to 7,500 people. The city, which was on a major east-west trade route that connected the Mediterranean coast with upper Mesopotamia, collapsed and was abandoned around 2100 BC possibly due to drought, only to resurrect itself as the primary urban center of the Jabbul plain until around 1200 BC."
Space impact 'saved Christianity'
by Dr David Whitehouse
Monday, 23 June, 2003
Global Rumblings msg
It was just before a decisive battle for control of Rome and the empire that Constantine saw a blazing light cross the sky and attributed his subsequent victory to divine help from a Christian God. Constantine went on to consolidate his grip on power and ordered that persecution of Christians cease and their religion receive official status... Jens Ormo, a Swedish geologist, and colleagues working in Italy believe Constantine witnessed a meteoroid impact. The research team believes it has identified what remains of the impactor's crater. It is the small, circular Cratere del Sirente in central Italy. It is clearly an impact crater, Ormo says, because its shape fits and it is also surrounded by numerous smaller, secondary craters, gouged out by ejected debris, as expected from impact models. Radiocarbon dating puts the crater's formation at about the right time to have been witnessed by Constantine and there are magnetic anomalies detected around the secondary craters - possibly due to magnetic fragments from the meteorite.

1 posted on 08/04/2011 5:51:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: Renfield; 75thOVI; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; ...

Thanks Renfield.


2 posted on 08/04/2011 5:56:27 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Renfield.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


3 posted on 08/04/2011 5:57:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Evolution in Your Face
by Patrick Huyghe
Omni
Lake Victoria, Africa's largest lake, is home to more than 300 species of cichlids. These fish, which are popular in aquariums, are deep-bodied and have one nostril, rather than the usual two, on each side of the head. Seismic profiles and cores of the lake taken by a team headed by Thomas C. Johnson of the University of Minnesota, reveal that the lake dried up completely about 12,400 years ago. This means that the rate of speciation of cichlid fishes has been extremely rapid: something on average of one new species every 40 years!

4 posted on 08/04/2011 5:57:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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http://geology.com/articles/east-africa-rift/figure2.jpg


5 posted on 08/04/2011 5:58:24 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

I told you it had to do with water.


6 posted on 08/04/2011 5:59:52 PM PDT by patton (I am sure that I have done dumber things in my life, but at the moment, I am unable to recall them.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Bookmarked for later reading, lots of interesting articles you link to there, thanks a bunch!


7 posted on 08/04/2011 6:01:41 PM PDT by battousai (Conservatives are racist? YES, I hate stupid white liberals.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Drought or politics?

Conservatives would have maintained a 7 year supply of food in reserve...

Liberals would have squandered the 7 years supply.

(Even if the drought was prebiblical, the principle would still apply.)


8 posted on 08/04/2011 6:05:26 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: SunkenCiv

Gen 41:

28 “It is just as I said to Pharaoh: God has shown Pharaoh what he is about to do. 29 Seven years of great abundance are coming throughout the land of Egypt, 30 but seven years of famine will follow them. Then all the abundance in Egypt will be forgotten, and the famine will ravage the land. 31 The abundance in the land will not be remembered, because the famine that follows it will be so severe. 32 The reason the dream was given to Pharaoh in two forms is that the matter has been firmly decided by God, and God will do it soon.


9 posted on 08/04/2011 6:06:36 PM PDT by Raycpa
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To: SunkenCiv
Lake Victoria, Africa's largest lake, is home to more than 300 species of cichlids.

Lake Malawi cichlids at the Toronto Zoo, if anyone is wondering what they look like (not my video though I have taken similar footage):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wue-iDmqmf8
10 posted on 08/04/2011 6:08:25 PM PDT by battousai (Conservatives are racist? YES, I hate stupid white liberals.)
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To: Pride in the USA

Thought you might find this of interest.


11 posted on 08/04/2011 6:10:23 PM PDT by lonevoice (schizophrenic hostage taking hobbit terrorist)
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To: mrsmith
American Society has been destroyed by 90 years of liberal policies and 3 years of Obama. America's Caligula hellbent on destroying the empire.

I think will call The big O Gaius Germanicus from now on.

12 posted on 08/04/2011 6:15:14 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: mrsmith

eating their children? Isn’t that what the US is doing economically??


13 posted on 08/04/2011 6:17:23 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: GeronL

The US Fed gov has two policies towards it’s childfren:

Tax them before they are born

kill them before they are born

We’re ‘progressives’ you see...


14 posted on 08/04/2011 6:22:42 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: SunkenCiv; blam

Good Christ. I thought this was a blast from the past. If you look at history every major shift in human history is accompanied by a plague or a drought, until the democrat evolved.


15 posted on 08/04/2011 6:25:27 PM PDT by Little Bill (Sorry)
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To: Jim from C-Town

Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus?

Never heard of him. Did he have to do with the Res Publica?


16 posted on 08/04/2011 6:26:34 PM PDT by patton (I am sure that I have done dumber things in my life, but at the moment, I am unable to recall them.)
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To: SunkenCiv

This has always been the conventional wisdom.


17 posted on 08/04/2011 6:39:20 PM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: SunkenCiv

Don’t know why this study is such grandstanding science. It’s been known in modern science that North Africa was once part of the Fertile Crescent. It was taught in one of my earliest geography/geology classes in college. The crusty old professor back then, even quoted the Biblical implications of it, since climate change science wasn’t even a serious study back then. And because we’ve understood that climate changes are merely cyclic.

The only reason that the study is serious these days is because universities realized through creating hysteria that they could get mucho $’s to get research grants and funding.


18 posted on 08/04/2011 6:59:15 PM PDT by RowdyFFC
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To: SunkenCiv
Good list. Much reading.

Now, back to Gilgamesh and Inkydoo ~

Inkydoo is the companion that came to play with Gilgamesh (the Moon). He ended up engaging in a lot of mischief but eventually ended up coming under the sway of Venus ~ rather than Earth ~ where he remains to this very day.

Inkydoo was an 'airy man ~ jus' like a comet ought to be. So, if we assume that the passes of Earth and Inkydoo occurred many times over several thousand years you get numerous opportunities for close call hunks of rock breaking loose from him and hitting Earth.

The reason they weren't destroying the planet was their relatively low velocity. That would also explain why their impact craters are so incredibly shallow without much surrounding ejecta.

I would imagine some astronomer is already working backwards on the Venusian moon's orbits to see when it came closest to Earth.

19 posted on 08/04/2011 7:39:46 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: SunkenCiv

Our days are numbered by the Lord, and only He knows the sum of them.


20 posted on 08/04/2011 7:48:10 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: patton
I know Barack Husein Barry Soetoro Obama doesn't have the same ring to it but the destruction is similar.
21 posted on 08/04/2011 8:16:12 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Jim from C-Town

Is it? Well, perhaps - both were preceeded by politicians that had already killed the republic, and destroyed their respective constitutions through excessive regulation and usurpation of power.

The Res Publica, “That thing of the People”, was the roman constitution (under the republic. Under the Julio-Claudian empire, not so much).

So ... will Barry’s handicapped uncle follow him in power, after the Praeterian Guard kills him in the coluseum? Will Auntie Z come out of her public housing, to assume the Presidency? Will Obama Make his horse, Incitatus, a senator?

(Strike that last - Biden is already president of the Senate.)


22 posted on 08/04/2011 8:35:26 PM PDT by patton (I am sure that I have done dumber things in my life, but at the moment, I am unable to recall them.)
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To: patton
‘Will Obama Make his horse, Incitatus, a senator?’

No! his horse is the health nag. She plants organic gardens. She certainly is a horses ass and has the backside to prove it!

‘Well, perhaps - both were preceeded by politicians that had already killed the republic, and destroyed their respective constitutions through excessive regulation and usurpation of power.’

Of course our Republic may have ended years ago. We just may not yet know.

‘will Barry’s handicapped uncle follow him in power,’

I think that Rev Write would constitute a handicapped uncle. A mentally handicapped uncle perhaps? Zatuni could be the new first lady. She would marry anyone to get that green card.

As for the Praetorian Guard. I have to admit the idea did put a brief but guilty smile on my face.

23 posted on 08/04/2011 10:46:51 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: SunkenCiv

ping for later read. Thanks Sunkenciv


24 posted on 08/04/2011 10:58:32 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: muawiyah; SunkenCiv; Renfield; blam; All

I immediately thought of the 2 mile crater in the Iraq Marshes, but I also recall reading about several craters of roughly the same age in Argentina. I think they may have been from 6 to 14 miles or kilometers in size. I also recall reading that there were two distinct episodes of particularly bad weather spread over a century or more around 2,000 BC.

Another item of interest is the Ipuwer papyrus, written by Ipuwer about the calamity occurring in Egypt at that time. It is in the Lyden Museum or University, I forget which. Overall this may have been a period of repeated boloid strikes and the resultant climate disasters. The mention of 12,600 BC may coincide with the probable boloid strike in upper North America. SC — The book!!


25 posted on 08/04/2011 11:06:19 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin; SunkenCiv
I thought of exactly the same thing and this article:

Disaster That Struck The Ancients

It once had a picture of the crater.

26 posted on 08/05/2011 12:25:55 AM PDT by blam
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To: patton; muawiyah; blam; SunkenCiv
that's Caligula's real name. Though I think Obambi is worse than Caligula -- at least Caligula didn't ruin the Empire with his madness. Obambi is like King John --> John's dad, Henry II had a huge empire over the entire British Isles with the Irish calling him overking, the Scottish and Welsh acknowledging his suzerainty and him controlling the entire western half of France (of modern-day France -- in the 12th century he actually ruled over more of France than the French King)

John squandered it all away.

If Richarde Coeur de Lion (the Lionheart) had remained, the Magna Carta would not have been signed and probably there would have been a union between France and England. Of course then everyone would have been speaking French (as did Richard the Lion-heart who was French, born in France, spoke only French and not Old English and was buried in France)

27 posted on 08/05/2011 1:02:13 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: patton; blam; SunkenCiv; odds; Tax-chick
both were preceeded by politicians that had already killed the republic, and destroyed their respective constitutions through excessive regulation and usurpation of power.

I just finished reading Lustrum by Robert harris and I strongly recommend that book -- it's incredibly true to history and is un-put-downable as well!

I knew most of the dry facts, but the way in which the author made the people come alive is fascinating

you are right that the preceding politicians had already killed the republic starting with the Gracchi brothers who started the practise of giving out free bread -- which led to the people getting lazy and demanding more from the state than what they gave

And then you have the line Marius-Sulla-Pompey-Caesar all moving towards the end of the republic

Harris' book really brings Caesar alive as a man of boundless ambition. I always wondered how a guy like Caesar could have outmaneuvered a successful general like Pompey. the politics described in the book are fascinating and give you a psychological portrait of Caesar.

The Roman Republic was doomed from the moment it starting distributing free food -- the people started asking for more and more and the Generals started competing among themselves over who could give them more.

The Principate was a good was to cover this up, but after the crisis of the 3rd century, I think Domitian had no other alternative but to really revert to Kingship.

28 posted on 08/05/2011 1:08:06 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Jim from C-Town
She certainly is a horses ass and has the backside to prove

I object, dear sir. Most of the horses I've seen are better looking..

29 posted on 08/05/2011 1:09:05 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Great info - thanks for posting that.


30 posted on 08/05/2011 1:36:25 AM PDT by Rocky (REPEAL IT!)
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To: Cronos
More likely Richard ~ along with virtually all the fellows who went to Jerusalem ~ spoke GALLO and not really French. There were NUMEROUS Gallo dialects throughout what we today call France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany ~ and standard French as spoken in the Ile de France (Paris and environs) was not all that developed.

Spain limped along with several languages, maybe 8 ~ Ladino, Arabic, Berber, Galician, Latin, Basque, Gallo, Cornwall, and several others.

31 posted on 08/05/2011 5:44:36 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Good point — norman was a branch of Gallo-Iberian


32 posted on 08/05/2011 6:59:32 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Chrzaszcz2.JPG


33 posted on 08/05/2011 7:04:35 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: lonevoice

Thanks! This makes total sense.


34 posted on 08/05/2011 10:46:05 AM PDT by Pride in the USA
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Boop His Beak!

Let Free Republic fly like an eagle

Make a one-time donation
Or sign up to donate monthly

35 posted on 08/05/2011 11:29:49 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: Cronos

There’s an older (eh, can’t find the ‘fo, probably 1970 at the latest) bio of Pompey which was fascinating. There was a third major player I’d never even heard of, who controlled his own gangs of thugs throughout Rome, just as Pompey and Caesar did. Ultimately, Caesar whipped Pompey on the battlefield, time after time, because he was a better general. Pompey even had the advantage of being funded by the Senate, a body which had stabbed him in the back more than once. Throughout its existence, the Republic was just an oligarchy; the addition of a permanent executive was a natural, needed step in an evolved political system which existed to serve the interests of the 30 or so families who literally owned most of Italy. There’s been a kinda odd idea that Caesar represented the end to the Republic, when the fact is, there really was no republic in the first place, and the addition of a permanent executive was a necessity to run an empire that antedated the rise of the imperator.

Now I’ve gotta go back and see how this all came up in this thread. :’)


36 posted on 08/05/2011 4:04:11 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam; gleeaikin

this picture?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1455000/images/_1458327_aa300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1455000/images/_1458327_aa300a.jpg

Sabertooth’s post in that thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/586511/posts?page=72#72

VannRox’s:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/586511/posts?page=114#114


37 posted on 08/05/2011 4:19:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: patton

That’s probably why they built with cubes.


38 posted on 08/05/2011 4:21:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: battousai; Little Bill; wolfman23601; RowdyFFC; Cronos; Rocky

My pleasure, and(/or) thanks for the kind remarks!


39 posted on 08/05/2011 4:23:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Raycpa; Ciexyz

The drought of the time of Joseph was during the Middle Kingdom period, the beginning of which is divided from the end of the Old Kingdom by the first intermediate period (which was a chaotic, disunited mess).

http://egyptphoto.ncf.ca/amenemhet%20III%20hawara5.htm


40 posted on 08/05/2011 4:27:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: battousai

Thanks battousai!


41 posted on 08/05/2011 4:27:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Cronos

That ... would be one ugly horse.


42 posted on 08/05/2011 4:29:08 PM PDT by patton (I am sure that I have done dumber things in my life, but at the moment, I am unable to recall them.)
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To: mrsmith; Jim from C-Town; GeronL

The drought was completely unexpected. There’s some evidence that the monsoon cycle (the one that causes famine in Africa due to lack of rain when it cycles down) was discerned by the Egyptians, whose fortunes were inextricably tied to the Nile “out of season” flood cycle. And they were also aware of the cause of that cycle, which is snowmelt. Herodotus recorded that as the fourth and (as he saw it) least likely of the four explanations he was told in Egypt for the odd flood cycle of the Nile.


43 posted on 08/05/2011 4:31:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: muawiyah

Thanks muawiyah.


44 posted on 08/05/2011 4:33:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: gleeaikin; Fred Nerks; ml/nj

Papyrus Ipuwer, FR, w/ thanks to Fred Nerks:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/999861/posts?page=11#11
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1912063/posts?page=19#19
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2483502/posts?page=15#15

and w/ thanks to ml/nj:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/999988/posts?page=7#7
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2049391/posts?page=8#8

and VannRox:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/744698/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/669255/posts

and (shudder) medved:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/742387/posts?page=144#144


45 posted on 08/05/2011 4:46:45 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Jim from C-Town
I think will call The big O Gaius Germanicus from now on.

Don't give him any ideas. He might have a staff flunky look up Emperor Caligula’s motto: Oderint dum metuant "Let them hate so long as they fear”.

46 posted on 08/05/2011 5:00:18 PM PDT by Pilsner
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To: Pilsner

I already both hate and fear the government!


47 posted on 08/05/2011 5:16:05 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: SunkenCiv

Almost makes me weep each time I read the HYMNS AND LAMENTATIONS FOR ANCIENT CITIES

http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/myths/lamentations.htm

On Lamentations...
Lamentation for the City of Eridu
Lamentation for the City Nippur
Lamentation for the City of Ur
Lamentation for Turin and Sumer
Lament for Unug

The Sumerian civilization dwindled approximately 3500 years ago, replaced by peoples from the North and East; a replacement that was often the result of war. There are several lament texts that have been found, each mourning the destruction of a different Sumerian city. These texts are all from the same time period, causing one to wonder if the laments are simply reflections of humans at war, or truly those of wars of the Gods themselves - quarreling over their own ideologies.


“the goddess of Ur, Ningal, tells how she suffered under her sense of coming doom.”

When I was grieving for that day of storm,
that day of storm, destined for me, laid upon me, heavy with tears,
that day of storm, destined for me, laid upon me heavy with tears, on me, the queen.

Though I was trembling for that day of storm,
that day of storm destined for me —
I could not flee before that day’s fatality.
And of a sudden I espied no happy days within my reign, no happy days within my reign.

Though I would tremble for that night,
that night of cruel weeping destined for me,
I could not flee before that night’s fatality.
Dread of the storm’s floodlike destruction weighed on me,
and of a sudden on my couch at night, upon my couch at night no dreams were granted me.
And of a sudden on my couch oblivion, upon my couch oblivion was not granted.

Because (this) bitter anguish had been destined for my land —
as the cow to the (mired) calf — even had I come to help it on the ground,
I could not have pulled my people back out of the mire.

Because (this) bitter dolor had been destined for my city,
even if I, birdlike, had stretched my wings,
and, (like a bird), flown to my city,
yet my city would have been destroyed on its foundation,
yet Ur would have perished where it lay.

Because that day of storm had raised its hand,
and even had I screamed out loud and cried; “Turn back, O day of storm, (turn) to (thy) desert,”
the breast of that storm would not have been lifted from me.

Then verily, to the assembly, where the crowd had not yet risen,
while the Anunnaki, binding themselves (to uphold the decision), were still seated,
I dragged my feet and I stretched out my arms,
truly I shed my tears in front of An.
Truly I myself mourned in front of Enlil:

“May my city not be destroyed!” I said indeed to them.
“May Ur not be destroyed!” I said indeed to them.
“And may its people not be killed!” I said indeed to them.
But An never bent towards those words,
and Enlil never with an, “It is pleasing, so be it!” did soothe my heart.

(Behold,) they gave instruction that the city be destroyed,
(behold,) they gave instruction that Ur be destroyed,
and as its destiny decreed that its inhabitants be killed.

Enlil called the storm. The people mourn.
Winds of abundance he took from the land. The people mourn.
Bood winds he took away from Sumer. the people mourn.
Deputed evil winds. The people mourn.
Entrusted them to Kingaluda, tender of storms.

He called the storm that annihilates the land. The people mourn.
He called disastrous winds. The people mourn.
Enlil — choosing Gibil as his helper —
called the (great) hurricane of heaven. The people mourn.
The (blinding) hurricane howling across the skies — the people mourn —
the tempest unsubduable like breaks through levees,
beats down upon, devours the city’s ships,
(all these) he gathered at the base of heaven. The people mourn.

(Great) fires he lit that heralded the storm. The people mourn.
And lit on either flank of furious winds the searing heat of the desert.
Like flaming heat of noon this fire scorched.

The storm ordered by Enlil in hate, the storm which wears away the country,
covered Ur like a cloth, veiled it like a linen sheet.

On that day did the storm leave the city; that city was a ruin.
O father Nanna, that town was left a ruin. The people mourn.
On that day did the storm leave the country. The people mourn.
Its people(’s corpses), not potsherds,
littered the approaches.
The walls were gaping;
the high gates, the roads,
were piled with dead.
In the wide streets, where feasting crowds (once) gathered, jumbled they lay.
In all the streets and roadways bodies lay.
In open fields that used to fill with dancers,
the people lay in heaps.

The country’s blood now filled its holes, like metal in a mold;
bodies dissolved — like butter left in the sun.

(Nannar, god of the Moon and spouse of Ningal, appeals to his father, Enlil)

O my father who engendered me! What has my city done to you? Why have you turned away from it?
O Enlil! What has my city done to you? Why have you turned away from it?
The ship of first fruits no longer brings first fruits to the engendering father,
no longer goes in to Enlil in Nippur with your bread and food portions!
......................................................
O my father who engendered me! Fold again into your arms my city from its loneliness!
O Enlil! Fold again my Ur into your arms from its loneliness!
Fold again my (temple) Ekishnugal into your arms from its loneliness!
Let renown emerge for you in Ur! Let the people expand for you:
let the ways of Sumer, which have been destroyed,
be restored for you!

Enlil answered his son Suen (saying):
“The heart of the wasted city is weeping, reeds (for flutes) of lament grow therein,
its heart is weeping, reeds (for flutes) of lament grow therein,
its people spend the day in weeping.
O noble Nanna, be thou (concerned) about yourself, what truck have you with tears?
There is no revoking a verdict, a decree of the assembly,
a command of An and Enlil is not known ever to have been changed.
Ur was verily granted a kingship — a lasting term it was not granted.
From days of yore when the country was first settled, to where it has now proceeded,
Who ever saw a term of office completed?
Its kingship, its term of office, has been uprooted. It must worry.
(You) my Nanna, do you not worry! Leave your city!”


48 posted on 08/06/2011 3:32:20 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (,)
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To: Cronos; patton; SunkenCiv; blam; no-to-illegals; All

I did not see this comment last year, but have an interesting little tidbit to add regarding the decline of Rome and also our current situation.

The triumvirate of Caesar, Pompey, Sulla had an another interesting thread. Sulla was in his early fifties and feeling the start of decline. He was in charge of the eastern part of the empire, so he thought it would really be a feather in his cap to conquer further to the east like Alexander. He decided to go up against the Parthians, which I think was in the area of Iran and perhaps part of Afghanistan. He, his son, and his army were totally destroyed, but his young lieutenant Cassius managed to withdraw with about 10,000 troops back to Syria, which saved Syria from rising up against Rome.

Remember Cassius, “Yon Cassius hath a lean and hungry look, he thinks too much, such men are dangerous.” Will Shakespeare. At any rate, years later Cassius was a leader in the plot which killed Caesar, for “too much ambition.” Guess what Caesar’s too much ambition actually was. He wanted to go conquer the Parthians to avenge Rome’s good name. My take: beware all politicians who think that trying to conquer the Parthians, or their descendents, is a good idea. At any rate, check out Sulla and his campaign, a fascinating story of pride and failure.


49 posted on 08/19/2012 12:17:01 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin; patton; SunkenCiv; blam; no-to-illegals; All
the first triumvirate was not Caesar-Pompey-Sulla but Caesar-Pompey-Crassus. Sulla died years before that.

But the rest of what you wrote of Crassus losing the battle of Carrhae (Harran -- the same place Abraham went to from Ur)

the Romans lost again in 259 to Shapur II of the Persian Sassanid empire. But between that time Trajan had destroyed the Parthian empire

50 posted on 08/20/2012 2:38:27 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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