Posted on 12/06/2001 6:35:33 AM PST by blam
SUNDAY DECEMBER 02 2001
Genetic survey reveals hidden Celts of England
JOHN ELLIOTT AND TOM ROBBINS
THE Celts of Scotland and Wales are not as unique as some of them like to think. New research has revealed that the majority of Britons living in the south of England share the same DNA as their Celtic counterparts.
The findings, based on the DNA analysis of more than 2,000 people, poses the strongest challenge yet to the conventional historical view that the ancient Britons were forced out of most of England by hordes of Anglo-Saxon invaders.
It suggests that far from being purged and forced to retreat into Wales, Cornwall and Scotland when the AngloSaxons invaded in the 5th century, many ancient Britons remained in England.
The study, conducted by geneticists at University College London, found that as many as three-quarters of the men tested in some parts of the south of England have the same Y-chromosome as the ancient Britons or Celts, rather than that of the Anglo-Saxons.
Overall, the scientists found that between 50% and 75% of those tested in parts of southern England were directly descended from Celts, implying that they had survived the Anglo-Saxon invasion. In Scotland the proportion of those with Celtic ancestry was found to be little different from the population of southern England.
"The evidence is quite strong that there is a substantial indigenous component remaining in England," said Professor David Goldstein, who led the study. "Genetics has opened up a powerful window on the past. We can now trace the movements of peoples and address questions that have proved difficult to answer through history and archeology alone."
The study, commissioned by BBC2 for its current Blood of the Vikings series, was designed to assess the impact of Norwegian and Danish Vikings, as well as Anglo-Saxons, on the British population.
Researchers took swabs of saliva from 2,000 people in 30 locations around Britain, and from 400 people in Norway, Denmark and Schleswig- Holstein, the area in northern Germany identified by the team as a homeland of the AngloSaxons. Those taking part had to have lived in the area for at least two generations.
Scientists then examined the Y-chromosome, which is passed unchanged down the male line of a family and is thus not altered by intermarriage.
The analysis showed that 60% of the men tested on Orkney were descended from Norwegian Vikings, as well as 30% of those in the Hebrides. While the Viking influence in these areas has been well known, it had been suggested that they were simply a ruling elite who did little interbreeding with the local population.
On the mainland, the survey found that 70% of those tested in York were from the continental European groups rather than the indigenous population, suggesting that the Anglo-Saxons made more of an impact on the Celts in northern England.
Only 10% of those tested in Wales were of Anglo-Saxon origin, confirming that it has retained an almost exclusively Celtic population.
In recent years the fate of the Celts in England has become hotly debated. Many historians have come to doubt the traditional story about the flight of the Celts from southern England, which was based largely on the account of Gildas, the 6th-century historian.
"There are various schools of thought ranging from near genocide (of the Celts) to almost total survival," said Patrick Sims-Williams, professor of Celtic studies at the University of Wales. "There could have been mass flight as well — it’s partly a matter of scholarly fashion, coming and going from generation to generation."
The genetic data will be eagerly received by scholars. Many of the place names in southern England have Celtic origins. Among them are Leatherhead, in Surrey, which meant "the grey ford".
"If you believe Gildas, the Anglo-Saxons would have been chasing the ancient Britons, catching up with one who wasn’t fast enough and saying, ‘Look here, before I cut off your head, just tell me the name of this place’," said Dr Margaret Gelling, a leading authority on place names.
I have this wonderful book, titled "The Celtic Heroic Age", which is a compendium of historical accounts of the Celts. There is a great quote from Strabo, in which he says the Irish like to eat their dead and do the whap-a-dang with their siblings.
We came from a fun bunch.
Thanks, I appreciate it. -LT
Amazing huh?
I agree with you about the Bushmen. There is absolutely NO way they were EVER in Ireland !
There were references to 'Black Irish' before the Spanish ship wrecks. Any insight on the Fomorians? Black Leperchauns? I aready stated that the Bushmen were Asian.
Partholan
Neimheadh
Fir Bolg
Tuatha De Danann
Milesian
To this day Ireland is still split into 5 sections; Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Connacht, and Meath.
Regardless of the current religious beliefs of Ireland as the wars between the Catholic and Protestants continue, this history is older than Christianity.
The Formorians - (Formors, Fir Domnann, Fom hoire) Where said to be the first to inhabit Ireland after the great flood. Primary Goddess was Domnu, they are said to be hidious creatures.
Partholons - Came led by King Partholan, with 25 men and 24 Women Warriors, but they could not defeat the Formorians.
Nemed - (Nemhedh, Neimheadh) Under leadership of Artur, Nemed's Son. They lost the first battle against the Formorians, led by King Morca. When battle was over 30 Nemed remain alive, in which its said that half went north and the other half went South. To return later from the north as the Fir Bolg.
Fir Bolg - (Fir Bolga, Fir Bholg, Gailion, Dhomhnann) Managed to live among the Formorians until they were later conqured by the Tuatha De Danann, which were to be the other half of the Nemed who went South.
Tuatha De Danann - Although the accounts say the Tuatha De Danann had come from the sky to teach Ireland the arts. They were to be Gods or Great Spirits, the Sidhe. Tuatha De Danann did not try to defeat the Formorians at first, rather they made peace and interbred.
Elatha - (Son of a Formorian King) had an affair with Eri (who later Ireland of old is named after), and their son, Bres, became a great Tuatha De Danann Warrior. Only when the Formorians were relaxed and off guard, did the Tuatha attack and defeated the Formorians and their king Balor (Balor Beimann).
Tuatha De Danann's allies against the Formorians consisted of a few; Oghma, Patron Diety of Poetry & Warrior of Tara who fought alongside of Lugh.
Neit (Net) Tuatha War God, was killed by the Formorians. Badb, Part of the Morrigan, and final was the Chief of the Druid of Tara,
Figol MacMamos, who used his magic which allowed the Tuatha De Danann to defeat the Formorians.
The remaining Formorians were driven into the ocean where they reside as sea monsters as Lochlann, King Tethra. Lugh was adopted by the Tuatha De Dannan, he has the sword of which he stole from Tethra, one of which is death by itself, this was at the Battle of Moytura.
Cu Chulainn is the said reincarnation of Lugh.
Fennian Hero, Leader of the Fianna, Ossian (Osian, Oisin) was friend of the Tuatha De Danann King Finvarra, and married Niamh, of the goldenhair who leads warriors to Tir nan Og.
Tuatha De Danann did not come to inherit Ireland, they were forced underground by the Milesians.
Milesians - Sons of Mil, the Gaels, a cousin race of the ancient Celt People.
Irish legend says that the Tuatha de Danann (the people of the Goddess Danu) are the fairy folk; the fairies, pixies and brownies who inhabit the mounds, or Sidhe, of the Irish countryside. But upon closer examination, one discovers that the Tuatha de Dannan were actually a people who inhabited Ireland in times long past.
According to the Annals of the Four Masters, the Tuatha de Danann ruled Ireland from 1897 BC to 1700 BC. The story of their invasion of Ireland and subsequent war with the Fir Bolg (the previous inhabitants) is a fascinating chronicle of ancient Irish history.
....snip....
The wildest notion is that black hair is evidence of Spaniards marooned in Ireland following the wreck of the Armada. As we've had occasion to discuss in the past, the number of shipwrecked Spanish sailors who remained in Ireland for any length of time was trivial.
I have also heard it said the black Irish were the first settlers of Ireland--maybe the Phoenicians. The red Irish, meanwhile, were descendants of the Normans, and the blond Irish are descended from the Vikings. One of many drawbacks to this theory is that it seems to leave the Gaels completely out of the picture.
A more plausible but still essentially unprovable take on this idea is that black hair is a vestige of an indigenous population of short dark-haired types overrun by the fair-haired Gaels. Supposedly there are more black Irish in the western part of the country, which fewer Gaelic invaders reached.
There is archaeological and, I'm told, linguistic evidence of pre-Gaelic settlement. But how it was concluded that they were short and black-haired I do not know. Seems like a silly thing to make a fuss over in any case
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