Posted on 12/06/2001 6:35:33 AM PST by blam
SUNDAY DECEMBER 02 2001
Genetic survey reveals hidden Celts of England
JOHN ELLIOTT AND TOM ROBBINS
THE Celts of Scotland and Wales are not as unique as some of them like to think. New research has revealed that the majority of Britons living in the south of England share the same DNA as their Celtic counterparts.
The findings, based on the DNA analysis of more than 2,000 people, poses the strongest challenge yet to the conventional historical view that the ancient Britons were forced out of most of England by hordes of Anglo-Saxon invaders.
It suggests that far from being purged and forced to retreat into Wales, Cornwall and Scotland when the AngloSaxons invaded in the 5th century, many ancient Britons remained in England.
The study, conducted by geneticists at University College London, found that as many as three-quarters of the men tested in some parts of the south of England have the same Y-chromosome as the ancient Britons or Celts, rather than that of the Anglo-Saxons.
Overall, the scientists found that between 50% and 75% of those tested in parts of southern England were directly descended from Celts, implying that they had survived the Anglo-Saxon invasion. In Scotland the proportion of those with Celtic ancestry was found to be little different from the population of southern England.
"The evidence is quite strong that there is a substantial indigenous component remaining in England," said Professor David Goldstein, who led the study. "Genetics has opened up a powerful window on the past. We can now trace the movements of peoples and address questions that have proved difficult to answer through history and archeology alone."
The study, commissioned by BBC2 for its current Blood of the Vikings series, was designed to assess the impact of Norwegian and Danish Vikings, as well as Anglo-Saxons, on the British population.
Researchers took swabs of saliva from 2,000 people in 30 locations around Britain, and from 400 people in Norway, Denmark and Schleswig- Holstein, the area in northern Germany identified by the team as a homeland of the AngloSaxons. Those taking part had to have lived in the area for at least two generations.
Scientists then examined the Y-chromosome, which is passed unchanged down the male line of a family and is thus not altered by intermarriage.
The analysis showed that 60% of the men tested on Orkney were descended from Norwegian Vikings, as well as 30% of those in the Hebrides. While the Viking influence in these areas has been well known, it had been suggested that they were simply a ruling elite who did little interbreeding with the local population.
On the mainland, the survey found that 70% of those tested in York were from the continental European groups rather than the indigenous population, suggesting that the Anglo-Saxons made more of an impact on the Celts in northern England.
Only 10% of those tested in Wales were of Anglo-Saxon origin, confirming that it has retained an almost exclusively Celtic population.
In recent years the fate of the Celts in England has become hotly debated. Many historians have come to doubt the traditional story about the flight of the Celts from southern England, which was based largely on the account of Gildas, the 6th-century historian.
"There are various schools of thought ranging from near genocide (of the Celts) to almost total survival," said Patrick Sims-Williams, professor of Celtic studies at the University of Wales. "There could have been mass flight as well — it’s partly a matter of scholarly fashion, coming and going from generation to generation."
The genetic data will be eagerly received by scholars. Many of the place names in southern England have Celtic origins. Among them are Leatherhead, in Surrey, which meant "the grey ford".
"If you believe Gildas, the Anglo-Saxons would have been chasing the ancient Britons, catching up with one who wasn’t fast enough and saying, ‘Look here, before I cut off your head, just tell me the name of this place’," said Dr Margaret Gelling, a leading authority on place names.
I read some of it then took a hip shot. lol (I promise to read it all) The tree rings are physical evidence supported by numerous ice core data, you gotta believe that, huh?
I don't know what you mean, I'm not very computer smart. My son (Dr. blam) set that up for me last xmas when he was here. I'll try to figure out what you're talking about.
You can do it. First click on your own Profile, the name BLAM, at the lower bottom of any message YOU already SENT.
Then, at the upper right of your profile page which pops up, see the HOMEPAGE address your son installed, as in Geocities. CLICK on that HOMEPAGE.
Then, when that Geocities homepage comes up, look at the URL line and see that the address is wrong -- it's too long. Needs to be edited to get FreeRepublic out of it. That will route visitors to the right place.
Yep, this is the Galatia where Paul visited. Jesus said in Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was talking about Galatia and the other Celtic strongholds where Paul went.
Galacia and Phillipi and Ephesus and Corinth etc, were settlements of the Lost Tribes of Israel who, over 600 years before, escaped their Assyrian captivity and headed north through the Caucasas Mountains, thence westward to Galacia, and Hallstadt Austria, and Neuchatel Switzerland, and to the rest of North and Western Eurpope.
It seems to me that you have a big chronology problem in many of your references. The Viking invasions of England and Gaul started around 900 BC, the western Roman Empire had ceased to exist nearly 500 years prior to this. If you mean Roman Catholic (which itself would be anachronistic), say so. If you mean 'Romania' (in the general sense, that is, all areas which had been part of the Empire), say so.
Sorry blam, there are two problems with this: Neanderthals were extinct at the beginning of history, so historians say nothing about them, it is the anthropologists who do; while I would like to think that we have Neanderthal ancestors, it looks like modern genetics has ruled this out.
That is highly improbable ... otherwise the Azores would have been discovered long before 1420 when the Portugese were the first Europeans to discover the islands.
Very interseting link. Thanks.
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/www.gulfcoasthurricanes.com
Yup. I've read those DNA reports. Discouraging, I agree.
Just kill the resistors and holdouts, and the rest will learn to say "Yes Sir" in the new language real fast.
That is highly improbable ... otherwise the Azores would have been discovered long before 1420 when the Portugese were the first (modern) Europeans to discover the islands.
The comet that plunged into the Celtic Sea in 540AD and brought on the Dark Ages may have had something to do with this. (evidence for this comet is recorded in the worldwide tree ring data.)
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