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Seminaries Full in Southern India (despite new anti-conversion law)
Zenit News Agency ^
| April 11, 2006
Posted on 04/11/2006 9:57:54 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Calabash
Well, on the bright side, she hadn't already been tossed into the flames of her husband's funeral pyre, since Christians had outlawed that sort of barbarity 100 years previous. By that standard, she was lucky to still be alive being eaten by rats and maggots. Tell me more.
Ever heard of witch-burning? Sati was never a general Hindu practice. One sect of Hindus did it. Other sects opposed it. Raja Rammohun Roy and William Bentick, allong with many other Hindu Reformists, banned the practice.
Bentinck, in his 1829 report, states that 420 occurrences took place in one (unspecified) year in the 'Lower Provinces' of Bengal, Bihar and Orissa, and 44 in the 'Upper Provinces' (the upper Gangetic plain)[14]. Given a population of over 50 million at the time for the Presidency, this suggests a maximum frequency of immolation among widows of well under 1%.
Explicit criticisms in the first millennium AD, included that of Medhatithi, a commentator on various theological works. He considered it suicide, which was forbidden by the Vedas
One shall not die before the span of one's life is run out,
[24]
Another critic was Bana, who wrote during the reign of Harsha. Bana condemned it both as suicide, and as a pointless and futile act. There does not seem to be any thought or suggestion among any of these critics that the act would not be voluntary.
[25]
Reform and bhakti movements within Hinduism tended to be anti-caste, favoured egalitarian societies, and in line with the tenor of these beliefs, they generally condemned the practice, sometimes explicitly. The Alvars condemned sati, in the 8th century.
[26]
The Virashaiva movement in the 12th and 13th centuries, also condemned it.
[27]
In the early 19th century, Ram Mohan Roy wrote and disseminated arguments that the practice was not part of Hinduism, as part of his campaign to ban the practice.
61
posted on
04/12/2006 7:25:45 AM PDT
by
CarrotAndStick
(The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
To: NYer
**The seminary rector said that people were turning to the Church in protest against the new regulations. **
Looks like things are backfiring in India. When the Catholic Church is persecuted -- many come to the Church. It's a time of great conversions, no matter what locale!
62
posted on
04/12/2006 7:29:36 AM PDT
by
Salvation
(†With God all things are possible.†)
To: Raj13008; NYer
The issue is with forced conversions or conversions done using alurements , as well as the abuse of hinduism done by some fanatic x'tian missionaries. That cannot be tolerated. How many forced baptisms in India last year? Are you claiming seriously all these converts by allurement are somehow chained to the Church so they cannot return to Hindu cow worship if they wished?
So its only in pacifist , law abiding , peaceful societies like the hindus society and secular , friendly , countries like India that the fanatic bigoted racist x'tian missionaries can carry out their soul harvesting fantasies.
Wow, drink a little too much piss and vinegar this morning with your breakfast?
And it is hilarious to see a man of a society based on varna - racialist skin color discrimination far worse than anything ever seen in the west - accuse Christian missionaries of being bigoted racists! Especially when were it not for those Christian missionaries, you wouldn't have modern education or health care.
If you want to accuse Christians of being bigoted racists - when was the last time you hugged or touched a swarthy untouchable?
If India is so firendly and non-bigoted, why must their be forcible affirmative action for Untouchables?
63
posted on
04/12/2006 7:31:48 AM PDT
by
Calabash
To: Raj13008
When you offer comments like "the pacifist, law abiding peaceful societies like the Hindu society", you insult the intelligence of each of us. Tell that to the widow of the Australian missionary who was burned alive along with his two young sons in an automobile by a group of Hindu fanatics.Tell that to the friends, family and congregation of the Catholic priest recently murdered. How dare you refer to "fanatic,bigoted racist x'tian missionaries". You have to have your eyes opened to your own blindness and bigotry. BTW you seem to have a problem with the word "Christian". Your definition of bigotry seems to be hating Christians more than is necessary. I can do nothing but pray that your heart will be touched and your eyes opened.
64
posted on
04/12/2006 7:34:53 AM PDT
by
Upbeat
To: Calabash
65
posted on
04/12/2006 7:36:53 AM PDT
by
CarrotAndStick
(The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
To: Raj13008
These days majority of schools and hospitals in India are run by hindu capitalists as they are seen to be a profitable business. Please provide a citation. When I was in India, I was ifnormed that 2/3 of these were run by Christians.
Health tourism is a big thing in India lately - a muti-billion $$$ business. Many folks in US and Europe come to India to avail of medical services ranging from surgery to recuperation.
Oh sure. Our neighbors are always rushing off to some place that doesn't even yet have reliable electrical power and certainly doesn't have the rudiments of a water purification system to have major surgery.
Obviously you are an ignorant racist and I dont expect people like you to know better anyway.
Yes, that's me. Ignorant racist just observing the facts. (/sarcasm)
66
posted on
04/12/2006 7:38:04 AM PDT
by
Calabash
To: All
67
posted on
04/12/2006 7:38:49 AM PDT
by
Salvation
(†With God all things are possible.†)
To: CarrotAndStick
That's not true. There are a lot of Christian-run schools. But they are nowhere near the number of public schools/ private, secular schools. And that 'mass of ignorance' remark is condescending, and by itself mirrors your own lack of information about schooling in India. If it weren't for Christians starting a schooling system in India, the limits of education would still be the limits of the Brahmin caste.
I have plenty of information on Indian schools, as I have taught in two of them in Delhi - one Christian one and one in a Jughi Slum.
68
posted on
04/12/2006 7:40:04 AM PDT
by
Calabash
To: Raj13008
When you offer comments like "the pacifist, law abiding peaceful societies like the Hindu society", you insult the intelligence of each of us. Tell that to the widow of the Australian missionary who was burned alive along with his two young sons in an automobile by a group of Hindu fanatics.Tell that to the friends, family and congregation of the Catholic priest recently murdered. Why do you refer to "fanatic,bigoted racist x'tian missionaries"? You have to have you eyes opened to your own blindness and bigotry. BTW you seem to have a problem with the word "Christian". Your definition of bigotry seems to be hating Christians more than is necessary. I can do nothing but pray that your heart will be touched and your eyes opened.
69
posted on
04/12/2006 7:40:23 AM PDT
by
Upbeat
To: Calabash
70
posted on
04/12/2006 7:42:07 AM PDT
by
CarrotAndStick
(The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
To: Raj13008
When you offer comments like "the pacifist, law abiding peaceful societies like the Hindu society", you insult the intelligence of each of us. Tell that to the widow of the Australian missionary who was burned alive along with his two young sons in an automobile by a group of Hindu fanatics.Tell that to the friends, family and congregation of the Catholic priest recently murdered. Why do you refer to "fanatic,bigoted racist x'tian missionaries"? You have to have you eyes opened to your own blindness and bigotry. BTW you seem to have a problem with the word "Christian". Your definition of bigotry seems to be hating Christians more than is necessary. I can do nothing but pray that your heart will be touched and your eyes opened.
71
posted on
04/12/2006 7:42:16 AM PDT
by
Upbeat
To: Calabash
If it weren't for Christians starting a schooling system in India, the limits of education would still be the limits of the Brahmin caste.Not post-Independence. You yourself mentioned the affirmative action taken by the Indian government to reserve seats to the disadvantaged groups
Besides, that sort of argument is like telling that the Christian schooling system wouldn't be teaching mathematics if it weren't for the Hindu Decimal system.
Would you extend that logic to the Japanese, the Koreans and others, where the societies are not Christian, but the facilities are world-beating?
72
posted on
04/12/2006 7:46:55 AM PDT
by
CarrotAndStick
(The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
To: Raj13008
I personally met a missionary woman of the gentlest nature whose entire family was slaughtered by Hindu extremists. Aggressive assaults on the incumbent faith was hardly their style. My own experience with Hindi are that most are very hard to dislike, so I know that these extremists are not at all representative. (Even, here, in America, althought the media downplayed it, at least a few of the schoolground massacres were aimed at Christians.)
But as for your assertions that "no, it could never happen here," I know that personally is nonsense. Plus, I find the viciousness of your attacks slander yourself.
Further, I have friends who are immigrants to the United States from India. I have a much higher regard for them than the Mexican illegals, firstly, because they did not break U.S. laws to enter, but secondly, because they appreciate America, rather than many of the Mexican immigrants I come across who often seem to have outright contempt. I know they expect to do well in America, and few would characterize themselves as felling persecution; only a few, in fact, are Christian. But from the way they have characterized the business atmosphere, there is certainly far more classism, cronyism and nepotism where they come from (and I'm one of the few on this site who acknowledge that classism is problemmatic in the US). It's easy to see how someone who is an "outsider" simply by belonging to a minority religion would have problems with the system.
73
posted on
04/12/2006 7:51:28 AM PDT
by
dangus
(Church: "The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." Me: "US gets new HOV lane.")
To: little jeremiah
74
posted on
04/12/2006 7:57:21 AM PDT
by
CarrotAndStick
(The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
To: The Lion Roars
I think he was referring to people such as Raj. I know many Hindi; I find them, as a whole, quite peaceful, and very pleasant to get along with. In fact, I almost have developed a reverse prejudice: If I meet a Hindu in a work or classroom situation, and I have to pick teams knowing very little about the people who I am picking, I think I might naturally tend to lean to a Hindy to work with. I expect they'll be hard-working, team-oriented, intelligent, positive, and friendly. (Naturally, a positive prejudice is wrong, just as a negative one is, but it is helpful to acknowledge that one exists, and that I am capable of developing one.) But there have been a few attacks on this thread that lead me to see where that the commment about there being a Hindufascist mob on this site comes from, even if it is a bit overblown.
75
posted on
04/12/2006 7:59:26 AM PDT
by
dangus
(Church: "The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." Me: "US gets new HOV lane.")
To: The Lion Roars
I think he was referring to people such as Raj. I know many Hindi; I find them, as a whole, quite peaceful, and very pleasant to get along with. In fact, I almost have developed a reverse prejudice: If I meet a Hindu in a work or classroom situation, and I have to pick teams knowing very little about the people who I am picking, I think I might naturally tend to lean to a Hindy to work with. I expect they'll be hard-working, team-oriented, intelligent, positive, and friendly. (Naturally, a positive prejudice is wrong, just as a negative one is, but it is helpful to acknowledge that one exists, and that I am capable of developing one.) But there have been a few attacks on this thread that lead me to see where that the commment about there being a Hindufascist mob on this site comes from, even if it is a bit overblown.
76
posted on
04/12/2006 7:59:28 AM PDT
by
dangus
(Church: "The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." Me: "US gets new HOV lane.")
To: CarrotAndStick
Are you serious? Yes.
What are your views on the former Mexican governance over territories presently constituting the south-western United States?
I don't begrudge Mexicans flying Mexican flags. I spent time in childhood in Wisconsin with Swedes flying Swedish flags, Germans flying German flags, Norwegians flying Norwegian flags, Swiss flying Swiss flags, etc. The vast majority of the descendants of former Mexican citizens in Texas and New Mexico and California who stayed in our country after the 1848 war of course don't have much of an allegiance to Mexico. That is mostly something among the new immigrants.
Of course, you need to remember that it was the Mexicans who started the Mexican-American wars, first through their assault on the Texans, then by declaring war on America over the resulting Texas border dispute, which is why we ended up annexing their territory as reparation for their agression. I don't believe the Goans declared war on India in 1961.
77
posted on
04/12/2006 8:00:18 AM PDT
by
Calabash
To: Upbeat
78
posted on
04/12/2006 8:07:00 AM PDT
by
Calabash
To: dangus
I personally met a missionary woman of the gentlest nature whose entire family was slaughtered by Hindu extremists. If you're referring to the Staines' murder, it did disgust most Hindus.
The person responsible for the incident is in jail, for life.
The Staines' Murder Case
"The incident had sparked contrywide outrage leading to the setting up of a judicial commision headed by then sitting judge of Supreme Court D P Wadhwa.
The case was also handed over to the CBI for investigation. "
Finally, extremism is not the monopoly of India.
For example, just two days ago, there was news of a Hindu temple vandalised the in US.
And I recall several Indians/ Americans of Indian descent, who were brutally murdered in the US.
79
posted on
04/12/2006 8:09:32 AM PDT
by
CarrotAndStick
(The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
To: CarrotAndStick
I went to that link.
(By the way, I would strongly caution anyone who does not have very strong security settings on their computer NOT to go to that site... it tried to access my ActiveX TWENTY-TWO times. That has to be a record!)
It very much sounds like that those who support that cause are only incidentally Christian; the site makes it seem that the group is made up out of an equal number of Hindi. Labelling the group "Christian extremist" seems very uncalled for, since their goal certainly has nothing to do with promoting Christian goals. It sounds about as rational as calling the Confederacy "Baptist extremists," just because many in the Confederacy happened to be Baptist.
80
posted on
04/12/2006 8:09:51 AM PDT
by
dangus
(Church: "The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." Me: "US gets new HOV lane.")
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