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Mini ice age took hold of Europe in months
New Scientist ^ | Nov 11, 2009 | Kate Ravilious

Posted on 11/13/2009 4:48:50 PM PST by decimon

JUST months - that's how long it took for Europe to be engulfed by an ice age. The scenario, which comes straight out of Hollywood blockbuster The Day After Tomorrow, was revealed by the most precise record of the climate from palaeohistory ever generated.

Around 12,800 years ago the northern hemisphere was hit by the Younger Dryas mini ice age, or "Big Freeze". It was triggered by the slowdown of the Gulf Stream, led to the decline of the Clovis culture in North America, and lasted around 1300 years.

Until now, it was thought that the mini ice age took a decade or so to take hold, on the evidence provided by Greenland ice cores. Not so, say William Patterson of the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon, Canada, and his colleagues.

(Excerpt) Read more at newscientist.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; climate; emiliospedicato; godsgravesglyphs; iceage; science; spedicato
Via InstaPundit.
1 posted on 11/13/2009 4:48:50 PM PST by decimon
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To: SunkenCiv

Conveying Canada ping.


2 posted on 11/13/2009 4:51:15 PM PST by decimon
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To: decimon
No!

Wasn't it millions of years?

How can it only be MONTHS?

Sarcasm off. I suppose it depends on Who you see as being in charge. God or man? God can do whatever He wants as quickly or as long as He wants it to be.

3 posted on 11/13/2009 4:53:32 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
Wasn't it millions of years?

Huh? Wasn't what millions of years?

4 posted on 11/13/2009 4:56:23 PM PST by decimon
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To: decimon
There are a number of scientists who speculate some sort of impact event--either from a big meteor or comet--some 12,800 years ago that essentially wiped out just about all mammal life forms, including a fairly sizable early homo sapiens population--in North America itself. That's why human culture in North America was so distinctly different before and after that supposed impact.
5 posted on 11/13/2009 4:58:57 PM PST by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: decimon; grey_whiskers; markomalley; scripter; Defendingliberty; WL-law; Normandy; ...
 


Beam me to Planet Gore !

6 posted on 11/13/2009 4:59:31 PM PST by steelyourfaith (Limit all U.S. politicians to two terms: One in office and one in prison!)
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To: decimon

7 posted on 11/13/2009 4:59:47 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: decimon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Agassiz

Lake Agassiz would do that.


8 posted on 11/13/2009 5:02:05 PM PST by Snickering Hound
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To: 75thOVI; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; BBell; ...
Thanks decimon! The medieval "Little Ice Age" also took hold quickly.
 
Catastrophism
 
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic · subscribe ·
 

9 posted on 11/13/2009 5:10:19 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: decimon; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks decimon.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


10 posted on 11/13/2009 5:11:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes:
Flood, Fire, and Famine
in the History of Civilization

by Richard Firestone,
Allen West, and
Simon Warwick-Smith


11 posted on 11/13/2009 5:13:39 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv; decimon

Years ago there was a show on PBS about climate.

Some egghead types had gone into Canada somewhere to take core sediment samples from a lake, I forget which one.

By studying the size of the sediment particles, the pollen in the samples, etc. They were able to map out timewise exactly how long it had taken from this particular area to go from a moderately warm, temperate climate to full-scale, deep freeze ice age.

We’re talking glaciers and ice caps hundreds of feet thick.

Ninety years.


12 posted on 11/13/2009 5:17:15 PM PST by djf (Maybe life ain't about the doing - maybe it's just the trying... Hey, I don't make the rules!)
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To: SunkenCiv; decimon
Patterson's team have now set their sights on even more precise records of historical climate. They have built a robot able to shave 0.05 micrometre slivers along the growth lines of fossilised clam shells, giving a resolution of less than a day. "We can get you mid-July temperatures from 400 million years ago," he says.

Impressive, if they can pull this off.

13 posted on 11/13/2009 5:20:44 PM PST by colorado tanker (What's it all about, Barrrrry? Is it just for the power, you live?)
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To: SunkenCiv; decimon

Git-r-done.

Didn’t it seem like just a month or two ago it was warm and now when I go outside I freeze to death. How can that happen. Weird.


14 posted on 11/13/2009 5:20:46 PM PST by bigheadfred (I'm trying to remember. Did I wake up happy today?)
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To: djf; SunkenCiv

Being a bit geezerly I recall some speculations from decades ago. One was that ice ages do or can occur quickly.

Someone claimed there were fossils showing animals frozen while still eating. The reason for that was speculated to be the Earth shifting suddenly on its axis. That would of course mean a shifting of the frozen poles and not a general cooling of the planet.


15 posted on 11/13/2009 5:32:23 PM PST by decimon
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To: Snickering Hound; SunkenCiv

former shorelines, Lake Agassiz, North Dakota.

16 posted on 11/13/2009 5:54:26 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: Snickering Hound

That should be it. Or was it.


17 posted on 11/13/2009 6:00:49 PM PST by decimon
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To: Fred Nerks

I wonder what made the old shorelines so straight and right-angled?


18 posted on 11/13/2009 6:29:25 PM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: SunkenCiv

So now we have three sizes of ice ages?

There are Little Ice Ages, like those of the Dark Age and the late Medieval period, which bring great illnesses and crop failures. There are mini Ice Ages, like the Later Dryas, which cause cataclysmic regional population collapses. Lastly full scale Ice Ages, which bring cataclysmic climate change on a global level.

Has much been done to quantify these distinctions?


19 posted on 11/13/2009 6:30:44 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (a wild-eyed, exclusionist, birther religio-beast -- Daily Kos)
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Cave Study Links Climate Change To California Droughts
ScienceDaily | November 10, 2009 | unattributed
Posted on 11/13/2009 6:27:10 PM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2386076/posts


20 posted on 11/13/2009 6:34:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Sherman Logan
I wonder what made the old shorelines so straight and right-angled?

I think those are modern roads, build on the design for surveying land included in the Northwest Ordinance. The old lake shores are the fainter ripple like lines.

21 posted on 11/13/2009 6:36:34 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (a wild-eyed, exclusionist, birther religio-beast -- Daily Kos)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

Joke.


22 posted on 11/13/2009 6:39:17 PM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Sherman Logan

Good one, but it is possible that some city folk might have been confused (maybe).


23 posted on 11/13/2009 6:58:50 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (a wild-eyed, exclusionist, birther religio-beast -- Daily Kos)
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To: decimon

What a crock.

Shut down the Gulf Stream flow, and Europe cools of four degrees.

The article makes direct reference to “the Day After Tomorrow,” hoping people will fear this as an effect of global warming. The effect of warming Europe four degrees from global warming will be that a gulf stream which warms Europe four degrees shuts down. Hmmm...


24 posted on 11/13/2009 7:15:12 PM PST by dangus (Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)
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To: decimon
In "Earth In Upheaval" Velikovsky discusses that, along with Russian Arctic islands nearly built out of millions of bones, various other paleontological evidence. More recently, Emilio Spedicato wrote, "We discuss the hypothesis that the last glaciation was started by a collision over a continent and was terminated by a collision over an ocean." My view differs from Spedicato.
25 posted on 11/13/2009 7:18:20 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: colorado tanker

As long as they aren’t contaminating their tiny little samples with material from their own tools, I’ll look forward to their making good on that boast. :’)


26 posted on 11/13/2009 7:20:05 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: djf

Oh, but don’t forget, these things happened *gradually*. [guffaw]


27 posted on 11/13/2009 7:23:38 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Fred Nerks
Thanks Fred Nerks. From the hard drive, and ultimately from Science v 295, 11 Jan 2002,p 256-258:
"Kirchner was startled when the nuclide concentrations in the sediments he drew out of streams in 37 different catchments in Idaho's mountains revealed erosion rates over the past 5000 to 2700 years that averaged a whopping 17 times higher than modern-day rates, a finding he reported in the July 2002 Geology. After ruling out climate change and other factors, Kirchner concluded that the huge discrepancy must be due to catastrophic erosion events so rare that decades of regular observations are unlikely to spot them... One lesson to be drawn from this study, Kirchner suggests, is that in young, dynamic mountain ranges, engineers may be greatly overestimating the time it will take reservoirs to fill with debris should one of these catastrophic events occur in the reservoirs' lifetime." -- "Subtleties of Sand Reveal How Mountains Crumble" [related to cosmogenic nuclide dating]
(I was actually browsing for files on the Channeled Scablands flood event, but this one caught my eye)
28 posted on 11/13/2009 7:42:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: bigheadfred
[singing] Susannah don't you cry.
29 posted on 11/13/2009 7:42:24 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

There have been lots of glaciation events, all of them, literally, unexplained — apart from the usual resort to unworkable gradualist schemes by true believers. So it’s safe to say that there have been far more than three. :’)


30 posted on 11/13/2009 7:44:02 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Sherman Logan
I wonder what made the old shorelines so straight and right-angled?

Atlantians. DUH!

31 posted on 11/13/2009 7:56:40 PM PST by null and void (We are now in day 296 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Has much been done to quantify these distinctions?

How tall is a mountain? Serious question...

32 posted on 11/13/2009 7:58:07 PM PST by null and void (We are now in day 296 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: decimon
Around 12,800 years ago the northern hemisphere was hit by the Younger Dryas mini ice age, or "Big Freeze". It was triggered by the slowdown of the Gulf Stream, led to the decline of the Clovis culture in North America, and lasted around 1300 years.

The sort of timeframe for which they now have evidence is much more consistent with an impact event than with "the slowdown of the Gulf Stream."

33 posted on 11/13/2009 8:03:33 PM PST by Interesting Times (For the truth about "swift boating" see ToSetTheRecordStraight.com)
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To: decimon; SunkenCiv

I’m all for the big catastrophe event. But not necessarily a collision event. Maybe a glancing blow event. I was watching something (last night?) about whether or not a glancing blow from a cannonball could/would kill you. Do the same for the Earth. Fly a good sized object by the Earth, but not Venus, close enough to rock your world, cause some tilt and/or magnetic displacement, big, big water displacement, quakes. Basically the “works”. It would cause all kinds of hard to figure readings in different fields of study. But no big crater.

And Decimon, one small addition. The claim is made that frozen animals were feeding on “fresh” green plants in their mouths, stomach contents. I don’t find that so hard to swallow. I think it happened to me just yesterday.


34 posted on 11/13/2009 8:21:30 PM PST by bigheadfred (I am the eye in the sky watching you. I can read your mind...FUBO!)
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To: SunkenCiv
So it’s safe to say that there have been far more than three. :’)

I was referring to three types of ice ages, not to three ice ages.

35 posted on 11/13/2009 8:28:14 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (a wild-eyed, exclusionist, birther religio-beast -- Daily Kos)
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To: SunkenCiv
What's the average life span of modern day Cassandras and Jeremiahs?

Is there any chance we'll out live them?
36 posted on 11/13/2009 8:50:24 PM PST by BIGLOOK (Keelhaul Congress!)
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To: SunkenCiv

The Channeled Scablands

Some researchers have theorized that hundreds of megafloods in a cycle ranging over thousands of years formed the scars in Washington State. Electricity could have carved the region in minutes.

On September 20, 2005, National Public Broadcasting sponsored a NOVA television documentary, “Mystery of the Megaflood.” The program elucidated a theory for how Eastern Washington State was scoured down to the bedrock, leaving formations that geologists find difficult to explain from a uniformitarian perspective. Rather than relying on traditional models of slow, progressive erosion, a catastrophic hypothesis was proposed.

As the theory suggests, during the end of the last ice age, approximately 12,000 years ago, a flood of water taller than mountains swept down through valleys and drainage channels, moving at 120 kilometers per hour. The force of the water was so great that it washed away the forests, the topsoil and any signs of civilization that might have existed in its path. Nothing remained except humps of basalt lava, dry canyons, waterfalls that today have no water and deep chasms that mark where the colossal flow etched into the rocks...

SOURCE


37 posted on 11/13/2009 9:36:41 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: Fred Nerks
Fred, when I took my geology degree back in the 70's, the catastrophic explanation for the Washington Scablands was well-known, and was discussed quite extensively in my glacial geology class.

Melting glacial waters backed up behind a natural dam, and when the lake got too large for the natural dam to hold, it broke loose and headed downhill in a massive and devastating flood. We even studied aerial photos of the very large ripple marks seen in the flat lands west of the scoured area.

I am mystified about this article which acts like this is a new idea. Apparently at some point in the last 30 years the incremental theory has come to be the accepted explanation, and now the catastrophic people are re-surfacing.

I was also taught about rapid onset of ice ages, because back in the 70's the consnsus of the climatologists was that we were heading into another ice age.

38 posted on 11/14/2009 4:18:13 AM PST by Miss Marple
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To: BIGLOOK

Sure, just put ricin in the pot supply.


39 posted on 11/14/2009 8:17:03 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Fred Nerks

Thanks!


40 posted on 11/14/2009 8:17:20 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: bigheadfred
The claim is made that frozen animals were feeding on "fresh" green plants in their mouths, stomach contents. I don't find that so hard to swallow.
Heh...
41 posted on 11/14/2009 8:24:13 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

What I was getting at, each glaciation has a lot in common with every other one, but basically, they are all different from one another, hence, each one is a different type. It’s analogous to different kinds of volcanic eruptions — yet, to the fleeing villagers, all eruptions are the same. :’)


42 posted on 11/14/2009 8:33:14 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv

They’re already using colchicine to genetically modify their diploid plants to polyploidal....what’s taking so long.


43 posted on 11/14/2009 10:55:41 AM PST by BIGLOOK (Keelhaul Congress!)
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To: decimon
The mini ice age that most people refer to, took place a lot later than 12,000 years ago. It took place about 1300 AD. give or take(someone, I know, can come up with more precise figures). It took one summer for the weather to change, one summer in which there really wasn't a summer. Starvation and famine was the order of the day after that, Greenland was no longer green, Europe had to learn to grow different crops in order to survive, but that took time. Around the middle of the 19th century, the mini ice age began to subside and we are still recovering from it today.

I didn't write this to refute your posting, just clarifying what most people refer to as the "mini" or "little" ice age.

44 posted on 11/14/2009 11:26:09 AM PST by calex59
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To: Miss Marple
I was also taught about rapid onset of ice ages, because back in the 70's the consnsus of the climatologists was that we were heading into another ice age.

The Cooling World Newsweek, April 28, 1975

Excerpt:

...To the layman, the relatively small changes in temperature and sunshine can be highly misleading. Reid Bryson of the University of Wisconsin points out that the Earth’s average temperature during the great Ice Ages was only about seven degrees lower than during its warmest eras – and that the present decline has taken the planet about a sixth of the way toward the Ice Age average. Others regard the cooling as a reversion to the “little ice age” conditions that brought bitter winters to much of Europe and northern America between 1600 and 1900 – years when the Thames used to freeze so solidly that Londoners roasted oxen on the ice and when iceboats sailed the Hudson River almost as far south as New York City.

Just what causes the onset of major and minor ice ages remains a mystery. “Our knowledge of the mechanisms of climatic change is at least as fragmentary as our data,” concedes the National Academy of Sciences report. “Not only are the basic scientific questions largely unanswered, but in many cases we do not yet know enough to pose the key questions.” ...

(RUN FOR THE HILLS, THE ICE AGE IS COMING!)

45 posted on 11/14/2009 4:00:35 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: Fred Nerks

Thanks for backing up my recollection with an article!


47 posted on 11/14/2009 4:30:42 PM PST by Miss Marple
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related:

Collision in the Asteroid Belt?
Centauri Dreams | 2/3/10 | Paul Gilster
Posted on 02/03/2010 10:09:08 AM PST by LibWhacker
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2443556/posts


48 posted on 10/26/2013 8:30:31 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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Just an update to the ping messages.




49 posted on 10/26/2013 8:33:59 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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