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On Crete, New Evidence of Very Ancient Mariners
The New York Times ^ | 15 Feb 2010 | JOHN NOBLE WILFORD

Posted on 02/17/2010 7:15:26 AM PST by Palter

Edited on 02/17/2010 7:17:06 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

Early humans, possibly even prehuman ancestors, appear to have been going to sea much longer than anyone had ever suspected.

That is the startling implication of discoveries made the last two summers on the Greek island of Crete. Stone tools found there, archaeologists say, are at least 130,000 years old, which is considered strong evidence for the earliest known seafaring in the Mediterranean and cause for rethinking the maritime capabilities of prehuman cultures.


(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: ancientnavigation; crete; godsgravesglyphs; homoerectus; mediterranean; seafaring; toolmaking; tools; tooltime

1 posted on 02/17/2010 7:15:26 AM PST by Palter
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To: SunkenCiv

Older, again, ping.


2 posted on 02/17/2010 7:15:43 AM PST by Palter (Kilroy was here.)
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To: Palter; The_Victor

I wonder how the young earth types are gonna take this?????


3 posted on 02/17/2010 7:18:11 AM PST by nuke rocketeer (File CONGRESS.SYS corrupted: Re-boot Washington D.C (Y/N)?)
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To: Palter

Water, water, everywhere,
Nor any drop drop to drink.


4 posted on 02/17/2010 7:18:42 AM PST by Hegemony Cricket (The emperor has no pedigree.)
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To: Palter

pre-human?

I doubt it


5 posted on 02/17/2010 7:20:10 AM PST by GeronL (Dignity is earned from yourself. Respect is earned from others.)
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To: nuke rocketeer

Well, sounds like evolutionists should have a problem with this. How would humans of 40,000 years ago be less evolved than “Pre-human” ancestors of 130,000 years ago?


6 posted on 02/17/2010 7:21:22 AM PST by GeronL (Dignity is earned from yourself. Respect is earned from others.)
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To: nuke rocketeer
I wonder how the young earth types are gonna take this?????

Same as any other evidence that doesn't meet their preconceived notion....

....denial.

7 posted on 02/17/2010 7:33:30 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: The_Victor

Look at #6........


8 posted on 02/17/2010 7:40:14 AM PST by nuke rocketeer (File CONGRESS.SYS corrupted: Re-boot Washington D.C (Y/N)?)
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To: The_Victor

Not a river in Egypt...


9 posted on 02/17/2010 7:48:09 AM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
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To: GeronL
The oldest homo sapiens sapiens fossils are from S Africa and are dated to 150,000 years ago.
10 posted on 02/17/2010 7:51:38 AM PST by PIF
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To: PIF

So that “pre-human” remark in the article was balderdash? Why am I not surprised?


11 posted on 02/17/2010 7:53:23 AM PST by GeronL (Dignity is earned from yourself. Respect is earned from others.)
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To: Palter

What did the mediterranean basin look like 130,000 years ago? Was Gibraltar closed off?


12 posted on 02/17/2010 7:54:27 AM PST by FastCoyote (I am intolerant of the intolerable.)
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To: Palter

It’s time to break out my copy of “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner” by Samuel Taylor Coleridge.

http://www.online-literature.com/coleridge/646/


13 posted on 02/17/2010 7:59:21 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine
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To: GeronL

Modern man is around 50,000 years old. All of our technical achievements are built on previous generations. The pre-humans of 130,000 years ago were building on the achievements of their previous generations. I can understand how pre-humans would be more technologically advanced than humans were 40,000 years ago. The pace of technological advancement was horribly slow, especially in the first 10,000 years of modern man.

Technology started over 2 million years ago with the stone shapers. Over 500,000 years ago, pre-humans in china were using fire for light, warmth, protection and cooking.

No need to confuse evolution and technological advancement.

It wasn’t until 20,000 years ago that modern man created the bow and arrow. That’s 30,000 years to create something that a 3 year old can easily grasp today.


14 posted on 02/17/2010 8:02:54 AM PST by Tao Yin
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To: FastCoyote

“Was Gibraltar closed off?”

Yes, they were painting it.

;o)


15 posted on 02/17/2010 8:03:26 AM PST by BigCinBigD (")
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To: Palter

16 posted on 02/17/2010 8:04:17 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: GeronL
That's why Ardi had those odd feet, so (it?) could climb through the rigging of a boat and pull those oars. And with Ida on the shoulder we see the beginnings of the pirate species..Har!
17 posted on 02/17/2010 8:12:46 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GeronL

“So that “pre-human” remark in the article was balderdash? Why am I not surprised?”

NYT. Need we say more?

Also might be a good idea to see if this ‘find’ is reported on sites dedicated to that sort of stuff.


18 posted on 02/17/2010 8:32:48 AM PST by PIF
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To: Palter; Quix
Rhyme-of-the-ancient-Steampunk-mariner ping!


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

19 posted on 02/17/2010 9:04:34 AM PST by The Comedian (Evil can only succeed if good men don't point at it and laugh.)
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To: GeronL

also in the opening paragraph the peoples are reffered to as “possibily even prehuman” - you will note that the next references drop the “possibily even” and go directly to “prehuman”, as if somehow that has been established as fact in a few paragraphs. More shoddy NYT writing - but the intent is for you to come away with the wrong info.


20 posted on 02/17/2010 9:05:04 AM PST by PIF
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To: The Comedian

very fascinating.

thx.

LUBBRO


21 posted on 02/17/2010 9:18:41 AM PST by Quix ( POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: The Comedian

WHAT IS THAT THING?

a surface craft, I gather?

Prop for a movie?


22 posted on 02/17/2010 9:20:35 AM PST by Quix ( POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: PIF

They are trying to give the impression something besides a human was building boats.


23 posted on 02/17/2010 9:31:00 AM PST by GeronL (Dignity is earned from yourself. Respect is earned from others.)
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To: PIF

It is thought that boating started 40,000 years ago. Modern man is only 50,000 years old.

The article is about stone artifacts on Crete. Stone shaping started about 2 million years ago.

If the stone artifacts on Crete are 130,000 years old, then they were made by pre-humans. If they are on Crete, then they probably used some type of boat to get there.

If pre-humans had boats, then it’s probable that early humans had boats as well. However, the entire article has nothing to do with humans, so the opening paragraph shouldn’t have said anything about humans. This is anecdotal evidence that pre-humans had boats and means squat for humans.


24 posted on 02/17/2010 2:45:39 PM PST by Tao Yin
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To: Tao Yin

Homo sapiens sapiens in Europe and the Middle East is only 40,000 ya, but Homo sapiens sapiens is also found in SA dating to 150,000 ya - MDA trace goes back 200,000 ya.

Genetic records of original Homo sapiens sapiens mostly destroyed after MT Toba supervolcano eruption in 74,000 BC.

None of this is to be confused with Homo Erectus or Ergaster. HSS was concurrent with these other homo variations.


25 posted on 02/17/2010 5:37:39 PM PST by PIF
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To: Palter

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks Palter. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · LiveScience · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
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26 posted on 02/19/2010 7:35:48 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: Tao Yin

Where did you get that figure from? Humans are much older than 40,000 years.


27 posted on 03/25/2010 12:25:26 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: chris_bdba

According to Asimov’s Chronology of the World, modern man has existed for 40 to 50 thousand years. He used the phrase “same hardware, different software.”

Asimov’s book is amazing reading for the ancient times. In modern times, he reveals his socialist leanings and it colors his history. It’s really weird. The first half of his book, his commentary rings true, but the second half is distasteful because he put’s on his socialist glasses and interprets history with a different philosophy.

His older ancient history books are all great. I wonder when, where, and why his analysis of history flips...


28 posted on 03/25/2010 12:55:02 PM PDT by Tao Yin
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