Skip to comments.Chinese explorers stand by claim of Noah's Ark find in Turkey
Posted on 04/30/2010 3:13:27 PM PDT by FootBall
Chinese explorers stand by claim of Noah's Ark find in Turkey
The Hong Kong-based team rebutted skepticism over their claims of finding Noah's Ark in Turkey, though they said further research is needed to prove beyond doubt that they have located the fabled biblical boat.
(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...
I’d be more suspicious of the Genesis story if NOBODY talked about the Flood before Moses.
So I don’t get how earlier versions or names in different languages (or changed in order to make cultural claims) cast doubt?
I bet they fixed it, alright. The fix is in. They spent the last six years fixin' to give NAMI just what they were looking for.
No true believer needs ‘proof’ of the Genesis record.
God said it, I believe it, that settles it.
It is called faith, ya’ know.
Every human being serves somebody.
I try to serve God and His Son Jesus Christ.
Most of the time, I’m a miserable failure.
But, by grace am I saved, through faith, it
is the gift of God.
Boat - no boat, who cares?
“So I dont get how earlier versions or names in different languages (or changed in order to make cultural claims) cast doubt?”
Because it means the story is not Jewish or Christian but was borrowed/co-opted during the Jewish captivity in Babylon.
It would then validate Sumerian and Babylonian Gods, not the Judaic God. It would mean the early Jews were just stealing it and making it up as they went along.
“No true believer needs proof of the Genesis record. God said it, I believe it, that settles it. It is called faith, ya know.”
Isn’t that basis of most religions?
Yes, I think it is.
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No, it would validate history. If the event happened, it happened. The bible says the flood killed everyone except Noah's family, which means everyone is descended from them, so you would expect the story to pass down through the various languages and nations that sprang from them.
And if you believe that the flood was widespread but local, like for example the Black Sea region or the Persian Gulf region, it still obviously was a tremendous cataclysm that other nations would have heard of, and would have themselves been affected by. So again, you would expect the story to be embedded in the mythology of many nations in that region.
Remember, the Israelites didn't exist as a people until after Abraham, who was Sumerian. His tribe was gathered from other Sumerians and from among Canaanites.
If the cataclysm was caused by something world-wide, you would expect to see something similar even in mythologies of nations on the other side of the globe, and indeed you do.
I don't see anything in the article explaining how they know what they found is a ship, versus some other kind of wooden structure.
I’ve always had some problems with the “God said it, I believe it, that settles it.” bumper stickers but I essentially agree that faith is the core issue.
If indeed they found anything at all (the photos could have been taken of anything, anywhere, since they are interior shots), they’ve got a good grip on the beanbag of history — at that altitude, what structure (made of wood no less) has been said to be waiting for some lucky finder for over four thousand years? It’s a burden of proof shift from their shoulders to those of the doubters. BUT currently I am among those doubters, since I don’t believe their claims of radiocarbon dating, period. WHERE was the RC dating done, WHO did it, WHEN was it done (it generally takes a while to get something like that done, and chain of custody of the sample, as well as provenance, are important, as is handling of the sample), and where’s the freakin’ report?
Once these explorers come clean about that — and assuming that there really is a legit RC date — I’ll be fine with that. Then the hard work starts of actually finding out what the structure is, what is its size, etc. If it turns out to be basically intact and large enough to fit the description in Genesis, then overnight it becomes the world’s largest tourist attraction, and the Turkish gov’t (the Muzzies also revere Noah, as the Bible was one of the works Mohammed plagiarized) will build a road and rail and hotels lickety-split.
If they come clean, and it turns out they made up the RC dating claim, then their entire claim will have to be regarded as b.s. by any reasonable person. Clearly they could have said, “we have taken multiple samples, we have a video footage of each sample being removed from the mass of wood, and we want to get it tested”. But they didn’t say that.
So that means if you post something, I can’t post later my version of the same thing without stealing it from you and making up any details that differ from your version?
Faith comes from hearing (and reading) the Word of God.
Once someone sees and understands the basic principles
written in the Word of God, like confessing Jesus Christ
as their Lord and believes God raised him from the dead,
we get born again. Romans 10:9,10. Then with that new
spiritual connection understanding of the Bible becomes
open and easier to grasp. This is why faith is the key.
Bible says- believe, then you see. The world says- let me
see then I’ll believe.
I’m bailing out at the send out to mysterious Iranian university for radio carbon dating.That’s red flag enough!
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Uh, how so? The wicked were all destroyed by God in The Flood....weren't they?
Sounds like a browser or dns problem, try http://www.injesusnameproductions.org
So, they’re making a movie, of which this is just a publicity stunt?
Scientific Peer Review (webpage from that site):
the gist — Evangelical Christian and previously a member of this team, Dr. Randall Price, an evangelical Christian and former member of this team, is director of the Center for Judaic Studies at the conservative Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, wrote in a leaked email that some local Kurds “are said to have planted large wood beams taken from an old structure in the Black Sea area... During the summer of 2009 more wood was planted inside a cave at the site. The Chinese team went in the late summer of 2009 (I was there at the time and knew about the hoax) and was shown the cave with the wood and made their film...”
It’s a Getty image, so no posting it on FR, but here’s the link:
Found on this page:
Notice the obvious touch of fakery — the straw. 4000+ year old straw on which the animals must have lain, and it really helped sell the hoax.
Particularly since the wood was lugged up sometime in the past couple of years, but then they’d have to haul the straw too. Which figures, because it’s a HOAX.
If someone is going to try to pull off a hoax they should at least try to do a good job.
Aegean Dendrochronology ProjectA well-preserved juniper post, painted blue and with modern door hinges, was recovered from a modern village house simply because it looked suspiciously old. The sample we were given did not fit anything in our Neolithic inventory, so we sent a piece of it to Heidelberg to see what radiocarbon analysis would reveal. The date is 2117 B.C. + 110 years, which means it is from some Early Bronze Age occupation near the lake at Kastoria.
December 1998 Progress Report
Peter I. Kuniholm
Oh, they did a good enough job, for some. :’)
Still, until there is a tree ring and carbon dating analysis, there is no way to know that this structure wasn’t built by some small Christian/Zoroastrian/Jewish sect that believed in some doomsday cult that was related to the Noah and pre-Noah great flood folklore.
The people who built this could have been reading the same Biblical story we know, and decided it was going to happen again.
I’m among those who thinks there’s some basic actual events behind the tale of Noah and the Ark — but I would be very surprised if it is found. It’s not like the Ark was some small thing, and it’s not as if no one has lived in the area during the intervening millennia, and not as if no one has ever previously looked for it. And — nothing. Hagopian claimed to have been all up inside it, but that claim never produced anything except a “replica”.
The Ark has been reported by various folks who went looking for it, and it has never been found. This particular story doesn’t have anything going for it, and has a former insider saying it’s a fake. So, it would not/will not be surprising when the story breaks down.
There’s no lava in the photo, other than some loose rubble. I see what appears to be ice.
It’ll be nice if the other ten Arks filled with fodder that Noah had to tow so he could keep his menagerie alive for half a year are found nearby.
I am too. Because of Genesis people have been looking at that mountain for years. This seems awfully convenient for a group that was paid a bunch of money to find what they claim they found.
A closed mind is like a closed book; just a block of wood." -Chinese Proverb
It would then validate Sumerian and Babylonian Gods, not the Judaic God. It would mean the early Jews were just stealing it and making it up as they went along.”
Nope, Nope, and Nope.
It just means that people from that region kept some of their history, and passed it along. It doesn't validate or invalidate Sumerian or Babylonian gods, either. It just shows continuity. IIRC, Father Abraham was from the region where the Utnapishtim/Noah story comes from, so it doesn't mean the Jews stole anything, either. It's family history.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the
spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually
discerned.” I Cor. 2:14
A mind that is truly not closed is not closed to the things of the spirit but it is also open to knowledge and reason.
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