Communism and human nature (Bolshie Mod sez, Arise ye kittens of the earth!)

Bolshie Mod Manifesto ^

[Sammy sam]

Many argue that communism will never be possible because of "human nature". The essence of this false argument is the belief that a communist society would consist of an all-powerful central government that would tell everybody what to do--and would therefore undermine the creative initiative of individuals and the search for happiness.

• This argument is based on two false assumptions:

(1) It assumes that a communist society will look like the former Soviet Union, or the current China, North Korea, etc (ie: corrupt police states with a feudal-style ruling class) (2) It assumes that people will only work in order to own bigger and bigger piles of commodities.

• The truth is that: (1) There will be no government in communist society--people will do what they want without being pushed around by anyone. The development of a corrupt police state or a new ruling class will be prevented by the struggles of the masses who will be armed with the weapon of transparency. (2) In a world of abundance for all no one will have to struggle (or even work) for the necessities of life (which will be a birthright--just like the air we all breathe). People will work on projects of their own choosing because (a) they find the work fun and interesting; (b) they enjoy the work relationships with talented and dedicated co-workers; (c) they want to make the world a better place; or (d) they want social status and recognition. A world of abundance for all where work is fun (and voluntary) will be made possible by a much higher productivity of human labor.

• An example of communist work relationships is provided by the Linux computer operating system--the core of which was created by many thousands of people--all working for free. A 2nd example is the "work" involved when people post to this forum. No one gets paid to post here--but people do so--because it is an expression of their principles and convictions.

• Who is in control? Under capitalism (and previous economic systems such as feudalism and slavery) only a small fraction of the population has control over their conditions of work--and the life of society as a whole. Only under genuine communism will the masses control their conditions of work--and the culture, economy and politics of society.

[Kenton]

Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[G32]

Blah, no government. Everyone living off the land. Sure.

A non-communist state will run over the commune as soon as there's no central power.

[Constitution Day]

[scan58]

....Imagine....

[Travis McGee]

"The truth is that: (1) There will be no government in communist society--people will do what they want without being pushed around by anyone.

Over 100 million innocent human beings were murdered by communist governments in the 20th century chasing your insane delusions.

[Crazieman]

The pure communism you ask for is a modified anarchist system, left and right meeting and annihilating.

It cannot work. People will always work for their own good.

[contemplator]

Wow, this should be interesting

[EternalHope]

You should have posted this on April 1st.

[scan58]

...who will be armed with the weapon of transparency

The "weapon of transparency"...like The Invisible Man? You're dreamin', bud.

[Spok]

The most impressive aspect of this essay is the lack of spelling errors and use of punctuation. Sammy must have excellent supervision at the home...

[Arrowhead1952]

Another

[scan58]

Only under genuine communism will the masses control their conditions of work--and the culture, economy and politics of society.

See, that's why it won't work. Humans need leaders. I suppose the intentions were good, at first, in the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, et al, but it all rolls around to the same old garbage government control.
There is and never will be such a thing as "genuine communism". Besides, I like my stuff and I don't want to share it with anyone else.

[Darksheare]

We Love Bolshie Mod!
"Arise Ye Russian People!"
Za Nushu Chestnyu...

[theophilusscribe]

Ya ne znaio

[scan58]

*ping*

[Godzilla]

Right, and some animals are more equal than other animals

[Travis McGee]

[talleyman]

LOL! thanks for the humor break.

[Jaysun]

Hey a**hole, how did you ever manage to chew through the leather straps? First, the land of freedom, abundance, fun, blah, blah, blah described in your diatribe already exist - it's called the United States of America. Second, your idiotic claim that capitalism is a system in which the society at large is "controlled" by a select few is delusional. Everyone is free to move about the country and work (or not) as they please. You obviously have a low opinion of all people if you think they can be YOUR equals.

[headsonpikes]

You're kidding, right?

I mean, seriously, ... you are kidding, right?

[Lady Jag]

[MisterRepublican]

[Puckster]

In any power vacuum, someone will arise and become a dictator..........this is dreamland stuck.

[Disambiguator]

So, in other words:

"Communism keeps failing just because the right people haven't been in charge (yet)."

Yawn.

I'm glad to see the ZOT is well underway.

[Pyro7480]

[Lady Jag]

[Darksheare]

"• The truth is that: (1) There will be no government in communist society--people will do what they want without being pushed around by anyone."

This is patently false.
The 'people' work to produce goods that will benefit others.
In other words, you do not enjoy the toils of your own labors, others do regardless of their individual input into the system.
And under communism, some are mroe equal than others.
There will always be the 'party' elite.

[Darksheare]

LOL!

[Puckster]

Interesting until an El Duce' or Stalin comes along and oppresses you because he's paranoid that you might pose a threat to him.

[Arrowhead1952]

Sammy sam

[The_Victor]

In a world of abundance for all no one will have to struggle (or even work) for the necessities of life (which will be a birthright--just like the air we all breathe). People will work on projects of their own choosing because (a) they find the work fun and interesting; (b) they enjoy the work relationships with talented and dedicated co-workers; (c) they want to make the world a better place; or (d) they want social status and recognition. A world of abundance for all where work is fun (and voluntary) will be made possible by a much higher productivity of human labor.

In order for this to happen the production of life's necessities would have to be effortless rendering those items without value as commodities. You need to go back and retake Logic 101.

[zip]

Illogical, irrational, and insane post. (and that's being nice to you) bye

[Lazamataz]

I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
I'd like to hold it in my arms
And keep it company

Id like to build the world a home
And furnish it with love
Grow apple trees and honey bees
And snow-white turtle doves.

(That's the song I hear)
I'd like to teach the world to sing
(that the world sings today)
In perfect harmony

[Darksheare]

"• An example of communist work relationships is provided by the Linux computer operating system--the core of which was created by many thousands of people--all working for free. A 2nd example is the "work" involved when people post to this forum. No one gets paid to post here--but people do so--because it is an expression of their principles and convictions."

False.
FR is more like a community.
Neighbors don't get paid to be neighbors.
And THAT is not communism at all.

[dljordan]

"Humans need leaders."

And we pick such good ones, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, Hitler...

The only was for communism to work is for everyone to be totally honest, totally dependable, un-selfish and of general good will. In other words, their ain't many humans like that. Maybe if we had a hive-mind like the ants.

[Mrs.Nooseman]

Dang I missed the Zot!

[RobRoy]

Holy cow. That is one of the goofyest things I have ever read regarding politics. It is shallow beyond belief.

Must have been released on April 1st.

[Jimmyclyde]

In a world of abundance for all no one will have to struggle (or even work) for the necessities of life (which will be a birthright--just like the air we all breathe). People will work on projects of their own choosing because (a) they find the work fun and interesting.

I find drinking Jack Daniels and watching porn all day fun and interesting, when do I start?

[dirtboy]

(1) There will be no government in communist society--people will do what they want without being pushed around by anyone.

I want your big-screen TV. Give it to me, and no fair calling the cops, lest you create a police state.

You see, grasshopper, pure communism has this stumbling block. It promises equality - but few people want to be equal. So in order for everyone to be equal, you must force them to remain equal. And since making everyone equal is such a difficult responsibility, those enforcing equality deserve to be more equal. Meanwhile, the people you are forcing to remain equal have no incentive to work harder, so there is less to divide up among equals and more equals alike.

Which is how you ended up with the Soviet Union.

[Lady Jag]

[blinachka]

People will always work for their own good.

Precicely. This is the main reason communism fails. The idea of a "collective" society is nice on paper but in truth it is completely unrealistic due to the fact that it breeds laziness and apathy. There is no sense in hard work because no matter how hard one may work there is only so far up the ladder one may go under the communist system - thus - eventual apathy and resentment.

Oppression will undoubtedly come into play as there are those who cannot be stifled by the system and will eventually try to gain more and the need to put them "in their place" will arise. Who will do this but the government? Someone will always be in "control", like it or not. It is a fact. This is not to say that government should be in control of all aspects of life. Obviously this is not the case. A system such as that if the USA is indeed the ideal, although not perfect, but then NOTHING in this world is perfect when one is dealing with fallible human beings.

Anyone who truly believes that a communist system is workable and a good idea most certainly deserves the ZOT.

So, ZOT to you, Sammy Sam! ;)

[Texas_Jarhead]

"• An example of communist work relationships is provided by the Linux computer operating system--the core of which was created by many thousands of people--all working for free. A 2nd example is the "work" involved when people post to this forum. No one gets paid to post here--but people do so--because it is an expression of their principles and convictions."

Neither of these are valid examples that support your argument because neither of the endeavors is undertaken as primary work. No person could live by performing these tasks as described without some outside subsistence support.

"Who is in control? Under capitalism (and previous economic systems such as feudalism and slavery) only a small fraction of the population has control over their conditions of work--and the life of society as a whole. Only under genuine communism will the masses control their conditions of work--and the culture, economy and politics of society."

Wrong again. In a free market system people all along the chain have influence. Supply & demand has influence. Workers & producers have influence and consumers have influence. You really aren't very good at this are you.

[Undecided]

This is such a preposterous argument on so many levels that it doesn't really deserve a response. Nevertheless, here is mine.

While there are people whom considered it "fun" to assist in programming an operating system, your Utopian society will be hard pressed to find people who consider it fun to wake up before dawn to milk the cows or cultivate the land. Who will whistle while they work in your never-land coal mines? Who will dedicate their lives to the steel mills while you hippies are out "having fun"?

The reality is that without incentives and rewards, no one "chooses" hard work for their hobby. And no economic system offers greater rewards to hard work than the true capitalist system.

But without a strong government to protect it, even a great system would fall to invaders. A pacifist commune wouldn't even survive it's own malcontents.

I could expound about the immorality of enslaving a population to rise no higher than it's lowest, but the practical reasons for communism to be reserved for heaven and hippies are enough to suffice.

[DoctorMichael]

Ta-ta, Comrade.

[Texas_Jarhead]

PS - communism, or collectivism, also removes personal incentive

[Qwinn]

In a world of abundance for all no one will have to struggle (or even work) for the necessities of life (which will be a birthright--just like the air we all breathe). People will work on projects of their own choosing because (a) they find the work fun and interesting; (b) they enjoy the work relationships with talented and dedicated co-workers; (c) they want to make the world a better place; or (d) they want social status and recognition. A world of abundance for all where work is fun (and voluntary) will be made possible by a much higher productivity of human labor.

Uh huh.

So, out of a population of 300 million, you've got 70 million who want to "make the world a better place" by being rock musicians, 60 million who want to play in major league sports, 50 million want to dance/act/sculpt, 40 million who want to be astronauts, 20 million who want to write the Great American Novel...

Who the -hell- is going to get up at 4 o'clock in the morning every single day in order to collect the neighbor's trash because they find it "fun and interesting" and want to spend time with "talented and dedicated co-workers"? How many people working for the sanitation department are doing it for the "social status and recognition"? How many people want to shovel crap all day for the pure altruism of "making the world a better place"?

The vast stupidity of the Left never ceases to amaze me.

Qwinn

[techcor]

The truth is that: (1) There will be no government in communist society--people will do what they want without being pushed around by anyone.

Including starting a corporation?

The development of a corrupt police state or a new ruling class will be prevented by the struggles of the masses who will be armed with the weapon of transparency.

Never bring a weapon of transparency to a gunfight.

(2) In a world of abundance for all no one will have to struggle (or even work) for the necessities of life (which will be a birthright--just like the air we all breathe). People will work on projects of their own choosing because (a) they find the work fun and interesting; (b) they enjoy the work relationships with talented and dedicated co-workers; (c) they want to make the world a better place; or (d) they want social status and recognition. A world of abundance for all where work is fun (and voluntary) will be made possible by a much higher productivity of human labor.

Let me guess, your'e a Trekkie who believes replicators are just around the corner and you wear your "Spock" ears around the house.

[NoClones]

" The development of a corrupt police state or a new ruling class will be prevented by the struggles of the masses who will be armed with the weapon of transparency."

What the heck is a 'weapon of transparency?

[mozrock]

I would really, REALLY like to know what was actually meant by that! PLEASE mods, let them back if not just to explain that!! Weapons of transparency ....wtf?!?!